By Anthony Burke. on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:15 am:
| By Anthony Burke. on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:15 am: |
One of the biggest myths I believe that women have to get around is their supposed dependance on the hospital system. Both our beautiful children (Jordan & Logan) were born in birthing clinics. The problem with hospitals is that they interfere with a natural process which can traumatize the infant (don't laugh I don't mean psychological trauma, you won't get sued by your kids for having them in a hospital and they turned out creeps, that is another subject entirely). A simple epidural injects drugs into the woman that affects the child, and many hospitals insist on a vitamin K shot (more details on that one later) which is not neccesary for childs well being. If your planning your childs birth please check out that you know exactly what is involved and make a birth plan with a midwife of your choice delineating how you want your birth to go.
| By Jenni James. on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:16 am: |
How refreshing Anthony. Too often fathers are either relegated or relegate themselves to the periphery of the birthing of their babies. Unfortunately there is the perception amongst all first time parents that they and their babies will always be safe in a hospital setting and abdicate responsibility for their births to the 'professionals'! The saddest part to me as a private midwife is that this abdication takes away so much from the couple, the experience itself and if and when things do not go according to plan there is always this sense of needing to 'blame' someone.
There are so many options for care now, it staggers me that more couples don't ask the questions to ensure that they get what they want. Some of these might be: what is the ceasarean/ intervention rate of both the hospital and the doctor? are episiotomies done routinely for first time mums? What support will you both have during the birth? what about antenatal education? How can I avoid medical management? what is midwifery care all about?? the list of course goes on and on and the questions need to be asked. Perhaps this forum could be a good opportunity to explore some of the options? what do you think?
| By Jackie Mawson. on Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 11:43 pm: |
Birthing Choices. 16:06:08 07/27/00
Hi all,
Boy, is this a debatable subject, a really juicy one and one that really needs a lot of tolerance mixed thoroughly through it. Everyone is entitled to choose where and how they birth, that is my personal opinion, as long as they are making an 'informed' choice about the risks involved with each of the choices available to them.
Women need the knowledge to be able to make these choices, they need to have confidence in the safety of their choices and they need to know the pros and cons of each choice they make. If they still choose a c/section birth, or a birth surrounded by epidurals, episiotomies and pethidine... Well, I feel very sorry for them, I worry about their child, but I would never impose my beliefs on their choices.
No mother would willing risk her child's life to achieve her own comfort/dreams of the perfect birth experience. The sad thing is that most women think they are choosing the safest course/place to birth when they are making naive choices that entail unnecessary risks. They 'trust' the professional caring for them, and choose to remain ignorant about things that will make them feel uncomfortable if they have to think about them. These women sometimes achieve wonderful births, but generally their births are 'routine' and surrounded by technology. That is their choice, but it is not an informed choice.
Hospital birth, home birth, birthcentre birth... Who cares! A woman must birth where she feels most comfortable. It's not the place of birth that is important, but the honouring of the woman, her choices and her rights as well as those of her child.
An informed woman can birth anywhere and say "No" to unnecessary procedures. Her baby doesn't have to receive injections just because he/she has been born in hospital. The parents just have to say "no". It's illegal to take a person's pulse without permission, let alone stick needles in them, or perform surgery on them.
Knowlegeable women know this. They really 'choose' the place they wish to birth their child. Their choice will be based on the risks they are willing to take from the information they have at hand. They won't choose a homebirth if that makes them uncomfortable, but that doesn't mean they walk into the hospital and say "Here I am, what do I do?"
It's all about 'informed' choices. No place is the best place, no birth is the best birth, no parenting style is the best style. Individuality will always have a part in every decision each of us makes. Tolerance is the key word here.
Off my soapbox, until another day. Hope I didn't offend anyone with my forthrightedness!
| By Yvonne Lapp Cryns, RN, CPM. on Saturday, April 14, 2001 - 11:46 pm: |
Re: Birthing Choices. 07:43:12 07/29/00
Hi. A few sentences from another's post spurred me to reply.
"The sad thing is that most women think they are choosing the safest course/place to birth when they are making naive choices that entail unnecessary risks.
Hospital birth, home birth, birthcentre birth... Who cares! A woman must birth where she feels most comfortable. It's not the place of birth that is important, but the honouring of the woman, her choices and her rights as well as those of her child."
Truly informed consent would make the above paragraph true. However, we do NOT have true informed consent because the majority of women NEVER know ALL the options a healthy pregnant woman may consider (I do believe women considered high-risk also have a right to make the same choices about their bodies and their babies). Most women in industrialized nations do NOT know that they can have a home birth as safely as (or more safely than)a hospital birth. Free-standing birth centers are not available everywhere. In the United States, the term "birth center" has been corrupted by hospitals so that in states where birth centers are illegal, hospitals advertise "birth centers" which are actually maternity wards!! But women do not know there is such a thing as a free-standing birth center! Hardly an informed choice as to where they will birth.
Aside from PLACE of birth, women have NO choice in birth attendant. Any midwife who has HAD to become a nurse before becoming a midwife is steeped in the Medical Model of care. Nursing chains her to the Medical model of care if it is required to practice midwifery.
Woman-centered care is the foundation of the Midwifery Model of Care. Most women do not know that there are two philosophies of care which are fundamentally different. Unless women are informed about this model of care, they can't make an informed decision about which kind of practitioner they would prefer.
Governments which permit ONLY medically trained persons to attend births (doctors and nurses/nurse-midwives) intentionally keep women ignorant of the Midwifery Model of Care. An international midwifery credential which is based on the Midwifery Model of care and promotes independent midwifery is the Certified Professional Midwife.
Women have a right to determine where they will birth and with whom but must be given all options in order to make the right decision for themselves.
| By Anonymous on Monday, March 18, 2002 - 08:56 pm: |
Hi am am 24 and having my first child and i am so scared i am 19 weeks and dont have any support. i have a boy friend but i think it is the idea of being called dad and that is it. i love him but i feel completly alone i had to give up the one thing i love the most ( my horse) because everyone told me not to ride and i feel like they are either trying to run my life or just not interested actually both. I have a phobia i dont like being around alot of people and i dont speak to anyone about my pregnancy. HELP
| By Leigh Evans on Thursday, March 21, 2002 - 11:56 pm: |
To Anonymous. You certainly sound very distressed and in need of support. I am a midwife and you can email me at leighmidwife@hn.ozemail.com.au. I can probably put you in touch with a midwife in your area or whatever it is you need. Leigh
| By Sally on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 09:13 am: |
Dear Anonymous,
I am also 24 and wish I could give you a big hug at the moment.
Pregnancy and birthing and alll the associated issues really confused me about 18 months ago and then I started doing some research on the internet and got involved in some discussion lists and chat groups and I feel so much more confidence now. I still have doubts and concerns but I know there is information and resources out there to assist me.
My only real suggestion is to hit the net and get as much information as possible. This is what I have done. There are heaps of pages out there giving useful information on preg and optinons and thousands of discussion lists where you can ask all the questions you like and get some advise without having to actually speak to anyone. There are a number of lists that help young women (our age) with first time preg and how to tell their partners.
I also agree with Leigh's suggestion. Find a midwife, nurse, doctor - someone you feel comfortable with straight away and could trust. Go with your instincts. Most midwifes are these amazing and versatile people who might be about to provide some assistance.
As for horse riding - I suggest you talk to your doctor or a midwife about this. I have friends, who have had normal pregs that have ridden horses up to a few days before giving birth(you might have to give up the wild horse races though if you are interested in that sort of thing) . They use to ride every couple of days and spoke to their doctor/midwife after finding out about the preg about potential dangers and benefits before they continued to ride.
Hope everything works out for your in the end.
Sally
| By Alesa on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 12:45 pm: |
Dear Anonymous
I am a Midwife, Childbirth educator and mother. If you are in Melbourne please feel free to contact me and I'm sure that I could help you.
kozis@alphalink.com.au
Sally has some great ideas about learning all you can by accessing the "web", many many pages and sites have very useful information if you'd like to email me direct I could point you in directions which may be helpful.
There are many extra hormones which keep a pregnancy and the mothers body healthy. One of these (relaxin) causes ligaments to become more elastic and flexible. This is useful for birthing as it allows to pelvis to move and allow the baby through. Because of this increased flexibility it is possible to cause damage to joints with jerking movements and this is why horse riding along with many other hard impact excercises( eg jogging, ball sports) are not recommended during pregnancy. Joints at risk of injury from horse riding could include hips, pelvis, knees, shoulders, wrists. Riding is probably best avoided during pregancy but you can still spend time with your horse and resume riding afterwards, when your baby is about six weeks old. The choice however is yours 
| By jennifairy on Friday, March 22, 2002 - 01:04 pm: |
Dear Anonymous, I just wanted to say that I honour your strength of spirit, you may be lost & lonely now but you have already taken a step to overcome all that by posting here. As you will see there are many resources & people who are more than happy to help you (me included) Let your heart guide you, talk to someone you get a good feeling from (either online or personally, it doesnt matter).
You don't have to give up your horse,(I didnt) you may not be able to ride for a short while (maybe a chance to let your horse (& you) make another friend, teenage girls are great for this!) but you can still have your horse in your life.
I would also be happy for you to email me jennifairy@yahoo.com, lots of things change in pregnancy & hopefully these feelings will too)
| By jireland on Saturday, March 23, 2002 - 05:38 pm: |
Dear pregnant mum its a big deal giving up your one enjoyment why not resume but take it easy if u are an experienced rider then there should not be to many problems . as your baby grows you'll find your phobia may improve as you will always have company do u live alone? if u would lke to chat to a midwife do so jireland@vtown.com.au
cheers
| By sallyamazon on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 08:56 pm: |
Dear anonymous, I had my first child when i was 20. I knew no one with children let alone anyone pregnant. I had no support and my boyfriend left. Make use of the support your partner can potentially give you. Go together to an active birth workshop - it may make the whole thing seem real for him and give him ideas about how he can support you and also things you can ask for from him. If he's worth his salt, he'll be keen to be there for you, and acceptance (and without doubt excitement) about this baby coming to you both will follow. If this turns out to be too much for him, find some pre-natal yoga classes in your area and be cocooned by the loving strength of other pregnant women. Follow up on the offers of help and info from the midwives above. They'll let you know about active birth workshops/yoga schools in your area. Much love to you - you are your mother's mother's mother's mother's great great grand daughter and have the strength and wisdom to birth beautifully.
| By Karys on Sunday, March 24, 2002 - 11:20 pm: |
Dear Anonymous, If you are in Tasmania, there are many supportive midwives within supportive midwifery hospitals and community I can link you up with if not in my immediate area. As you can see, midwives from all over Australia are making themselves available to you and any other expectant mother who longs for encouragement and support during their pregnancy and birthing experience. Here's another email address to connect with jkfearon@tassie.net.au
| By Michelle on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:31 pm: |
Dear Anthony. Well I would just like to say that I gave birth to my beaut baby girl at a public hospital. The staff were very friendly and helpful. The midwifes in my birthing unit were fantastic. I had a birth plan all ready for the big day. When the day came for my baby to arrive I didn't even use my birth plan. My birth plan was basically drug free. I think you can dream a little to much when it comes to planning your labour. The night before I gave birth I had sleeping pills and pain killers. At the birth I had pethadine (which I did not want anything to do with it when I made my birth plan) I had an epidural and the gas. So much for the birth plan. Oh and my baby turned out perfectly fine. The apgar test scored a 9. She only had slight yellowgointes (however u spell it).
| By Diva Behan Howell on Thursday, March 20, 2003 - 06:00 pm: |
Hi , Im writing because I want to add to the comments made in regard to the birthing process. At 31 and 23 weeks pregnant with my first child, I have kept myself informed and open about the process of birth.My initial desire was to have a home birth, but my husband and I simply find the cost of a private homebirth to be prohibitive at the moment. As a result, I've booked in to the birth centre at the rwh in Brisbane-which , incedently , is the only one available in a public hospital. Of course,this doesnt guarentee that I will get into the centre, as there are so many women on the waiting list; as it is I am at number 4 on the list, and can only hope that we will make it in time.
My birth plan is simply to approach the birth without fear, with a small team of partners( mainly my husband and best friend) to support me in my choices. I do not want and epidural, episiotomy or pethidine, nor any other intervention.
BUT, there are no guarentees that these procedures will not be neccesary.
I think that looking over your debates about the interference of the medical profession, and the alarming rate of intervention, and the way in which these institutions rob women of a normal heathy birth experiencem, is not the only issue here.
I think it is the enormous amount of pressure WOMEN PUT ON THEMSELVES, AND ON OTHER WOMEN. Grow up ladies, we all want the romantic , ethereal, earth mother birthing experience-I know I do!! But sometimes things go wrong, whether its by sheer exhaustion, or pushy medical staff, or lack of knowledge, or for that case lack of personal power; but crucifying women who have made these choices adds to the bitterness and loss they feel at having missed out on the chance of a natural birth experience. Lets not damn women who would damn themselves. I know too many "walking wounded" who have had people decry how they were robbed of their most courageous and 'womanly' moment, at the time when what they need the most is a pair of sympathetic arms, and for the most part silence.
Why dont we try and foster a little more empathy amongst ourselves sisters, particularly when the women who have been 'robbed ' have still succeded- however the means - of giving birth and becoming mothers? Lets address the real enemy here- the fact that women are under informed in the vast majority of cases, and work on empowering one another in a gentle caring way, rather than bulldozing others with our passionate opinions.
| By Nique Atherton on Thursday, January 27, 2005 - 12:29 pm: |
Here here Diva! I had what most people refer to as a "bad" delivery with my first, I am now 34 wks pregnant with my third. Funny thing is I was in so much shock during that first birth that I remember very little of the pain, only that it was there and how bloody long it took! Simple fact is though, I ended up with an epidural, episiotomy and a fourth degree tear because of the need for a forceps delivery. At the end of the day I blamed no one that I tore so badly, my obstetrician gave me the chance for a normal (if you can call it normal!) delivery, if it didn't work, it was going to be an emergency c-section. The team of midwives that were there at the start of my 24 hour ordeal and throughout it were more than amazing, they and my obstetrician genuinely cared and that made a huge difference to both myself and my husband. What was less wonderful was the attitude of some of the midwives and other patients I came across after the birth. The breastfeeding attempts were not going well at all and despite this causing distress to both myself and my son I was literally pressured into it by social attitudes. Only my husband stood by me, reminding me that it was my choice at the end of the day. It took 6 weeks for the poor child and I to get things right! Women all around me who as far as I can see should have been supportive rather than opinianated made me feel less of a mother by their comments and when they found out I had had an epidural it was even worse!!! I had my second child, a very healthy, intelligent beautiful daughter in a Middle Eastern country where I was in the end given more support than here in Australia! I had an elective c-section because of the tear with my first delivery, and I bottle fed her, no stress, no crying, no feeling of failure. And this was in a country where a huge number of women are still giving birth in tents the old fashioned tribal way, says something about the lack of empathy from some women in our so-called advanced society don't you think?
| By Kimberley on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 09:04 pm: |
I would like to add my experience regarding the birth of my first child. I had attended ante-natal classes and planned for a 'natural' delivery. Unfortunately, I experienced significant labour pain, which I can definitely remember, to the extent that I was incoherent and all-consumed. I requested gas and an epidural with absolutely no coerscion by hospital staff. My daughter was monitored throughout the labour and showed no signs of distress. I was unable to push my daughter through the pelvis, due to her head circumference and my small pelvis, which is only one hands length from hip to hip. I ended up requiring trial forceps and an emergency caesarian. It really makes me annoyed to hear people pitying women who have an 'unnatural' labour. I wanted a 'natural' labour, but have accepted having a caesarian and am ecstatic about the fact that my daughter was born extremely healthy with no complications. I am truly envious of women who have larger hips than I do and babies with smaller heads than my daughter, and who also seem to be the ones who don't NEED anaesthesia in their labour. A friend of mine was able to carry on a conversation throughout her labour and didn't feel contractions, and was surprised when it was time to push. It needs to be acknowledged that not everyone has a trouble-free labour with pain that can be tolerated.
| By Kimberley on Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 09:41 pm: |
Ooh, I've just read my posting here and talk about aggro!! I was obviously responding to comments made earlier, but I can see the anger in myself here. Time has given me the opportunity to mellow about this and what an amazing experience it is seeing in black and white the change in my feelings. Thanks for your site Pinky and the chance to express ourselves freely and without judgement, finding great support. Kimberley
| By pinky on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 01:35 am: |
Thats fine Kimberly - how we birth our babies is a very personal and emotive topic - feel free to vent - to let out anger and grief - and to heal.
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Monday, June 13, 2005 - 01:01 pm: |
Thanks Pinky
| By Natasha on Tuesday, August 9, 2005 - 06:17 pm: |
Wow Wow and more Wow!! What on earth can anyone say to all these comments here?!! Kimberley I know exactly how you feel!! And to be jsut like everyone else - I wanted a natural labour too!!! But we don't always get what we want!!
I am quite proud of my birthing experience because to me it showed just how much strength I have and how far I can go - and I didn't have a natural birth!
Let me tell you - I was induced on the Friday night (that was the first thing I didn't want!!) at 7.30pm. At 10.30pm I started having contractions and I thought YIPPEE!! I had to get through the night and at 5.30 Sat morning I was in tears cause I was in pain, but still determined to get through it! I had a fantastic support team - my husband, my sister and my mother. They took me down to labour ward and monitored me all day. I had been saying throughout the end of my pregnancy that I was not going to be able to push my baby out, he is too big, yet I kept getting told by Drs and the like, that I was wrong and I would be fine. This was happening all day on the Saturday, The contractions got stronger and closer together and still nothing!! I ended up having pethidine (another thing on my not wanted list) and this slowed my contractions!! That night they started up again, so after 24 hours of "labour" (and I got told I was not in labour by the nurses) no sleep and very little food I felt like #*$%. The next morning I was still having contractions, I kept telling them to get my baby out and I was told my waters would be broken at 10.30am Sun morning. Waters were broken at 4.30pm. My baby was posterior - this explained why I was in so much pain!! By 6.30pm I was screaming for an epidural (another on my not wanted list!) and it took close to three hours to get it. I was stuffed, thrown around and hung out to dry basically. No-one in the hospital was helping me, and I was in tears and so were my family. At 11.30pm finally after receiving epidural and getting some rest, the Registrar told me she was going to make me wait another hour or two to see how much further I would dilate - over the course of the afternoon I dilated four cms (from 4.30pm to 11.30pm) and then if nothing happened then I would have emergency caesar (the final straw!) I told them immediately I was not waiting any longer - give me a caesar and get my baby out. My son was finally born by caesar at 2.05am Monday morning!! When he was born they all exclaimed how big he was (9p 1) and not only was he posterior, he had gone into my pelvis with the back of his head instead of tucking his chin, AND he was twisted off to the side, so even if I HAD tried to push him out I could have actually caused damage to him (shoulders neck and spine) because of his positioning. During the surgery I could barely keep my eyes open cause I was so exhausted.
So, tell me what went wrong there???? And you tell me why the medical staff and drs kept telling me that I was wrong. Mother knows best from day one!! For weeks and weeks I was devastated about my birth - nothing went to plan. I couldn't even breastfeed because my son was tongue tied and the midwife was rough and mean when trying to get my son to latch, in turn everytime he saw my boob he would scream and he couldn't latch properly anyway. So, that's my story, I loved my soap box today!! Thanks for reading!! I actually hope my story gives hope to others - that no matter what your baby will come out and make sure YOU say what you want and tell everyone to listen to YOU! I wish I had!
cheers!
| By Michelle on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:30 am: |
Boy oh boy Natasha! That sounds horrendous!!
I had thought that my birth experience was bad, but now I am truley thankful for what I went through.
Its funny, I was the opposite, they kept telling me how 'huge' Taliver was going to be and I knew he wasn't (I kept putting off that last ultrasound until I went into labour so I didn't have to have it).
Anyway, you should feel proud that you survived that experience so well and are still a great mum, and have a beautiful baby despite all the trauma.
Hugs
Michelle
| By Natasha on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:49 pm: |
Thanks Michelle! I am really proud of myself now for getting through it all and it really does make me feel like I can do anything (most days! lol!) and my son is the love of my life so I am exceptionally happy about it!! I was just so relieved to get him out!!!
| By Kimberley on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:31 pm: |
Hi Natasha
thanks for your story. What an ordeal. It sounds like you were in labour for a very long time! I'm sorry you had to go through that. Isn't it just so scarey when you're out of control and fearing for the safety of your baby. For me, the more the staff said everything's fine but here's the consent form for the forceps and caesar, the more frustrating it was. Elsbeth was posterior too, so not much was happening, they turned her around with forceps but I couldn't feel enough to push.
Good on you for getting through it and coming out a great mum. I know it was the most amazing experience for me and Damien, like all births would be, and gave us a solid base for our role as parents. take care Kimberley
| By Natasha on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 06:26 pm: |
Thanks Kimberley!
It was definitely an ordeal, and I did so want to push my baby out and have all the fluffy stuff!! But like I said - I really think it did give me a lot of courage and strength and certainly encouragement for myself....
Now I just have to get through this round of motherhood and the next birth!!! Can't wait!!
Take care,
N
| By Lysianna on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 02:49 am: |
Dear Strong Natasha,
Congratulations on your pregnancy! Please please please spend some time this pregnancy reading some "unassisted birth" stories. I have been truly astounded at the situations Ive read about where women (with all manner of "risk factors") have given birth alone without even a mid-wife!!! This reading has served to increase my confidence and belief that even in the most unlikely circumstance our bodies can and will birth our babies beautifully. The number one factor that nearly always leads to difficulties, pain and medical intervention is FEAR. We have an obligation to ourselves to seek out all the knowlege we need in order to abolish our fear. Thank you sooo much to all the lovely women who post on this forum, we are all helping to dispel each others fears. Lysianna "Dont push the river, it flows by itself"
| By Amys on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 01:54 pm: |
Wow, I almost feel guilty for having a great birth when I hear stories like these! Truth is, I loved my birth. It hurt, but I loved it. I had my baby at a birth centre with a brilliant midwife (Hi Helen if you see this!). Next time though I will be fighting tooth and nail for a homebirth, hopefully with the same midwife. I honestly feel that home is the best place for most mothers and babies. Physically that is, psychologically it is wherever the mother is most comfortable.
I think it's such a shame that western culture has medicalised birth so much and thus, created a culture of fear around it. It is a natural event. Yes, things do go wrong but most of the time, if left alone things go the way they are designed to.
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 06:19 pm: |
Lovely words of wisdom, Lysianna and Amy, thanks. Kimberley
| By pinky on Wednesday, September 28, 2005 - 11:49 am: |
What a beautiful saying Lysianna "Don't push the river, it flows by itself".
Have any of you read "The Red Tent" -by Anita Diamont? it is the story of Dinah, the only daughter of Jacob from the book of Genesis. It is a beautiful chronicle of womens lives and birthing -the red tent is the place where women stayed together during menstruation and where they gave birth. I believe there is so much value in sharing womens stories and supporting one another. You are all such strong and spirited women, it is a pleasure to read your stories -and as we tell our stories each time a little bit more healing takes place.
I was just thinking the other day about some of the utterly scary stories I was told as I was starting labour with my first child - each by women who had or knew about awful births and it struck me, there are probably generations of women who didnt get to tell their stories in a supportive way so years later they havent healed and thus 'share' their awful pain at any opportunity - eg at a baby shower, perpetuating this cycle of helplessness and fear.
Keep sharing here and supporting each other and much healing to all who have birthed ina culture of fear - may you seek carers who will truly support you next time. You can do it!!
Love and healing,
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 02:05 pm: |
Hi Pinky,
yeah it's amazing how many scarey birth stories you hear when you're pregnant, I even had people tell me about miscarriages they knew of happening around the gestation I was at!!! Could have strangled them. There's definitely a lot of fear surrounding pregnancy and child birth. Thanks for your ongoing support, I just have to get myself past my mental block that I can't birth naturally. Have gotten in touch with Birth Central as you suggested and plan to go along. Thanks again, Kimberley
| By Pinky on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:44 am: |
Be kind to yourself Kimberly -this must be so hard and will take time to get through.
You carried a beautiful baby and gave her life -and she is having a wonderful life being fed from your breasts in a responsive happy family -this is HUGE!!! You and your body are strong.
Remember, whatever you choose next time is ok -so long as you are allowed to participate in the decisions that are made. Some people do plan a caesar for subsequent babies but do this with careful planning of support and how this is managed - ie going into labour first so they kick off the hormones that are so helpful to bonding/ being able to hold their baby skin to skin ASAP - not being separated.
Although I would never advocate that caesar and natural birth are equal 'options'/ choices, ultimately if a caesar is indicated for good reasons, you can still participate and feel empowered -not raped - by the process.
see the article I have just posted in Pregnancy secion on this site "Birth Unplanned" -I also have a new baby one -The Language of Tears -this was published in September Practical Parenting mag.
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Saturday, October 1, 2005 - 12:20 am: |
Thanks Pinky,
I read the articles and could relate to Birth Unplanned. I did feel like the staff gave up on me and, this is weird, even like they were training on me as I was in a teaching hospital and there were 2 obstetricians and student midwives running around - exactly what I didn't want to happen. Unforutnately I went into labour on a sunday night and they were all fresh on Monday morning and raring to go!! How do you prove such things without sounding paranoid??
I had the best laid plans, but it just got out of control, and I pretty much took up the patient/sick role when I got to hospital rather than being inspired by the staff. Because I asked for an epidural (which I hadn't wanted) but felt I couldn't manage my pain (probably out of fear plus Elsbeth was facing the wrong way which can put pressure on the back), I ended up in a gown, lying down, with a catheter and IV drip. I mean how ridiculous!! Guiltily, I was relieved though when the pain stopped. I asked if I could stand up at one stage and the nurse tutt-tutted as it would upset the monitors on my belly. It was like it was her birth, and I can't even remember her name!! I guess I sound angry, and it's sort of easier to just accept it, then I don't have to feel angry, but in doing that, I'm not really owning the birth and I guess more importantly now, future births. Thanks for the advice about future caesarians (if that's how things turn out) as just acknowledging that makes it feel ok if that's the road I take. You know I really wanted support from the medical system IN CASE anything went wrong, but as it turned out it felt more like the system took over. I feel that next time, things will be better and I'll have an experienced support person there (doula) and will be the main player in the decision making. That said, Damien (my husband), was wonderful but obviously not experienced in such matters and was so worried about me and disappointed too.
The other article was good too in describing crying responses and mechanisms behind crying it out and cc and the effects, plus how bfing works in-conjunction with the babies' needs, which doesn't always make sense until it's spelt out.
Thanks again Pinky, Kimberley
| By tracey on Friday, December 9, 2005 - 09:46 pm: |
Hello, I am 19 weeks pregnant and I guess I am scared that I will feel there are too many people in the delivery room. I have always hated being focused on by a group and usually retreat especially when I am in pain. I have this mental picture of me either hiding under something or birthing in a corner. I also hate the idea that someone might manipulate the baby onto my breast to feed immidiately asI would prefer to do this myself. Am I the only one and are those people who will ultimately be helping me to birth understand my need for control and privacy without me having to tell them over and over. I am scared I will get aggresive and shout at people to leave me alone.
| By Michelle on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 02:17 pm: |
Hi Tracey,
Where are you planning on birthing your baby?
I think your fears, are warranted. It can be very daunting, and its hard to imagine what will go on until you are there in the thick of it!
I was worried about having too many people there too, and so regrettably I didn't ask my mum or mother in law to be there with me. During my birth, there were doctors and nurses coming and going, but I was so focussed on dealing with the pain, I really didn't even notice who was there most of the time! The reason I regret not having my mother or MIL there, was because I was too distracted to communicate properly or get aggresive enough to have things the way I wanted it or even to remember what it was I did and didn't want!
I hope that you have a very positive birth experience, and I think that it is really great that you are thinking about these things so early on!
Not only did someone else try manipulate the baby onto my breast (unsuccessfully) but it wasn't until about 20-30 minutes later when I was practically passing out with exhaustion!! I had kept asking to BF the whole time after he was born, but she kept saying "oh I'll just clean him up first" "you should have a shower first" "we need to measure him first"
which really annoyed me, because I knew how important early contact was, and hell, I'd just birthed this baby, and I wanted to hold it! I didn't give a damn how long he was!!
But on a positive note, despite having that delay AND despite not being allowed to put him to the breast for another 3 days and being seperated for 5 days due to him being in intensive care, I am still breastfeeding my happy, healthy 18 month old son!! After those early hurdles I found breastfeeding to be fairly easy, thank god!
I think a really great idea would be to hire a doula, or perhaps even have a close friend. That way you can tell this person early on what you want during your birth experience, and THEY can be the ones to advocate for you, so you don't have to worry about being manipulated, or being aggressive and hopefully this will help you to have a beautiful, natural birth!!
Best of luck with it all, please keep in touch with us and let us know how it all pans out.
Michelle
| By Amanda on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 07:59 pm: |
Great idea Michelle I was going to suggest a Doula also... Here you go http://www.doulasaustralia.com/about.shtml
| By Pinky on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 09:08 pm: |
Congratulations Tracey on considering all of this ahead of time. Choosing your carers and birthplace wil be important, as will writing a birthplan and communicating this to your carers.
As the girls have suggested - hiring your own doula - or even your own independent midwife is a fabulous idea. Then this person will know you, know what you want and will support you and hold your space. It is far better to take at least one other woman with you than worry about lots of people/ strangers etc.
It is very instinctive to want to be undisturbed in labour - think how a cat will look for a prvate space before birthing kittens
I found I wanted to be alone in labour and with my youngest child "hid" in the shower by myself for ages - it felt great to just be there in my own zone. It is very personal how you feel and what you want but a good doula will be trained to do what you want - even if this varies when you are actually in labour -I cant recommend it highly enough. Let me know where you live if you want any contacts.
A lovely new book by WA doula Gabrielle Targett is labour of Love www.labouroflove.com.au
Also see Gentle Birth, Gentle mothering by sarah Buckley Brisbane GP - another great book hot off the press -
www.sarahjbuckley.com
Best wishes,
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
Hi Tracey,
I agree, a doula or independent midwife would be highly recommended. I wish I had thought more about it, like you are now. I found when it came to the labour, all my plans went out the window and I think my hubby was as overwhelmed as me and did his best to support me. I felt quite disempowered by the hospital and would have greatly benefited from an independent support person to express my needs clearly for me. Good luck with finding someone and I hope you have a great birth!!! Kimberley
| By tracey on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 09:38 pm: |
Thankyou all for writing, ive spoken to a couple of people who act like i'm very strange to be more afraid of the environment than the birth. I have chosen the womens and childrens hospital in Adelaide
and think I will go for shared care (doctor and midwife) My very first experience with a midwife was very bad so at first I chose doctor only care. In the first three months I was so tired that I couldn't read forms AND understand what they were on about and was met with frustration. I also felt discriminated against. I am 25 yrs old but look very young. I remember the very fist question I was asked as I sat down was "Is this a planned pregnancy?" So my husband couldn't make it as he has his own business! I wanted to be alone any way
as I find urine samples and the taking of blood to be a private thing. But I changed my mind 4 weeks later when I went to womens assessment as I felt anxious and conscerned for the baby because I thought I was losing fluid. ( my first pregnancy and my own natural fluid was in excess and was exactly like water) the woman that looked after me there was lovely and concerned without being pushy or taking charge of me. I guess that being male or female has completely no bearing when it comes to whether or not I feel safe. My male doctor who does all my pregnancy check ups is an older man prob 60 and he is so excited for me, is gentle but not too nurturing (not into strangers trying to be
a parent) I only hope that when the time arrives those people I feel relatively safe with are actually available which is another source for concern. The day it all happens everyone could be complete strangers all over again! I keep saying I will stay home for as long as possible, this upsets my mum, she says first births are very unpredictable and to go in asap. Thats exactly why I don't want mum there, she has always been the voice of doom and danger whether it's about why to be afraid of dogs, going overseas, swimming or especially horses ( Bite at one end, kick at the other apparantly) Jeez, if I could only give birth without any help I would have nothing to worry about. But as that isn't about to happen I will just have to ask advice and filter it all for whatever sounds like me. Once again, thankyou
| By Kimberley on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 01:44 pm: |
Hi Tracey
Wow, lucky for you, you look so young!! Pretty rude to ask that though, even if your pregnancy wasn't planned, none of their business. My husband came to one antenatal appointment early on and then I went to most of the rest on my own - it didn't seem necessary to have him there for a quick check up. I had leaky fluid too, and went in to get it checked out a couple of times just to be sure. Though the waiting around for them to assess me was often worse than being at home with my feet up!!
Is it possible for you to meet staff from the birth team at the hospital to make sure you know them in your labour, is that who you have your check ups with? I know what you mean about not wanting your mum there, I didn't want mine either as she can get panicky and interfere with things if she's worried, making molehills into mountains. I remember being worried about the contractions sqeezing my daughter and then I read somewhere that each contraction is like a BIG HUG!! I've heard of babies who've had a very long labour coming out very peaceful and content.
Just remember in the end, you will have a beautiful baby to hold. We'll all be thinking of you, best wishes, Kimberley
| By Pinky on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 09:57 am: |
Hi Tracey ,
Reassurance - there are some great midwives at the Womens and Childrens in Adelaide. - also I can recommend a lovely doula in Adelaide - have emailed a friend to find her contact details - check out Maternity coalition link on my site too- there should be some Adelaide contacts to birthing classes and support groups. You are a wise mum to do all this homework. Lucky baby!
Re looking young - my daughter who is 25 is also pregnant - due end of April - similar to you. At her checkup at the birth centre she is booked into, she and her husband were together but as it was a day off for him , they were both just casual in thongs etc - they were asked similar questions - re planned? Do you have family? Are they excited? Are you working? (hubby too - which he is). After replying very casually without details - she told the woman she was alady of leisure - didnt mention her quals/work background( psychology), on her way home, Larissa said she finally realised that this was obviously the social assessment and had quite a grin to herself at how they were obviously judged and boxed because although her husband is 31 they both look very young.
Pinky
| By Michelle on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 12:36 pm: |
Thats funny... you would think in this day and age it wouldn't matter so much.
When I found out I was pregnant (during an ultrasound actually) I was 21 and alone at the appointment. The woman said to me "I hope I'm not about to ruin your life or anything, but theres a baby in here."
I quickly said "its okay, I'm married," and she replied "oh, it doesn't matter if your married or not, we get plenty of girls in here who are young and unmarried." or something and was very positive and nice about it.
I don't know if its just the area I live in or something, but while I was in hospital, the first girl I shared a room with was single (the father came to visit once for about 30 mins) and the second girl I shared with was about 17 but the father was there everyday.
So I'm surprised that people are still funny about it!
But then again, my best friend fell pregnant when she was 16 and she tells me that lots of people were very judgemental, and that still 6 years later she gets asked if shes still with the father (she is, and has another son by him the same age as taliver).
interesting...
| By sam pearson on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 04:18 pm: |
What I noticed about my first birthing in a local hospital was that even though I had, to use the hospital midwives own words, a "textbook" labour and birth, they still managed my birth. I had VE's, I was induced (my waters were broken), things went downhill from there, I had pethadine, I was coached to push, after my baby was birthed they pulled on his cord. Afterwards I wondered why I received so much intervention with a normal birth? I kept an open mind with my second birthing because you never know how things will go but by being at home I ensured I wasn't tempted by drugs since there weren't any. I was very relaxed and was able to face the experience with courage and dignity. Still on a learning curve I choose an unassisted birth for my third baby and in this way had total privacy in my own home.
I agree one of the reasons women are afraid of birth is because it is promoted by other mothers, the media and the medical professionals as a terrifying and painful medical emergency rather than the natural process it is in the majority of cases. My own experience was that everybody was so keen to tell me their horror stories but more reluctant to tell me their positive stories. With my 2nd and 3rd birthings I educated and prepared myself for all outcomes but I sheltered myself from all negative anecdotes - I think this is possibly one of more important things I did during my pregnancies because it reduced my fear to zero.
As for drugged births causing no harm to babies - I can't agree with that statement since studies have shown longterm effects including more risk of drug use as an adult.
| By Pinky on Monday, December 19, 2005 - 10:02 am: |
Tracey - the doula I mentioned in Adelaide is Jo Bainbridge: 08 83886918. She will be able to head you towards some positive birthing education/ support whether you want a doula or no . As Sam says - surround yourself with positives - absolutely the best advice ever!!!.
Thanks Sam for your experience.
I have told my own daughter she comes from a long line of birthing women - its in her genes! I tell her my Nana's story of having her babies at home - Nana said "we didnt have ten pounds to go to the hospital - winnie ( a lay midwife) would come and help us have our babies then she'd cook dinner for the kids and husband" . My daughter was present and watching over the midwife's shoulder when I had our youngest bub.
I hope she absorbs the positives and it colours her experience .
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 02:41 am: |
Good on you Sam, it sounds like you had wonderful experiences with your second and third births. Pinky, that's great advice you're giving your daughter. How old was she when she was there for the birth, is there an age that you recommend they be older than to observe? I can imagine Elsbeth would be facinated and probably want a front row seat, but would maybe be a little scared if she saw me in pain. ta, Kimberley
| By Beck on Thursday, December 22, 2005 - 04:00 pm: |
my sister's and i all attended each other's birthings. they were great experiences so when it came to my turn i was so excited and only slightly nervous. my first two births were beautiful although at a hospital my sisters ensured that we were left alone. we laughed and sung and i did alot of moaning! with my third i can't really go into it, it's still a little raw and probably not helpful for others to read about.
sam your experiences sound wonderful too.
beck
| By Kimberley on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 03:01 pm: |
Beck, it sounds like your sisters are really supportive, what a wonderful thing you have done for each other. Kimberley
| By tracey on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 01:16 pm: |
I just went in for my 20 week check up and told the doctor I do not even want pethadine in the room with me when I am giving birth should somebody unthinkingly go to administer it to me. I come from a family of women with a history of birth becoming extremely challenging and feeling disoriented and unable to push after being given pethadine. My doc wrote that I was allergic, maybe I am silly but when I said not in the room I meant it! I just dont trust anyone enough to believe they have taken the time to read everything let alone remember without prompting. Went in for ultrasound and made it perfectly clear we do not want to know the sex of the baby. I had to go back in two days later, thankfully this time alone and the same doctor, after being reminded "forgot" and as I have been referring to the baby as he the doc said " oh, so you know what it is then?" I'm keeping it secret from husband but after I told the doc off he said there is 10 % chance i'm wrong anyway, as though that should make the fact that he took away my dream of a surprise okay. Seriously every time I deal with anyone "helping me" with the lead up to this miraculous occasion (baby is kicking and punching me non stop as Im writing this) the more I wish I didn't need anyone besides my husband to have anything to do with it. Helpers should stand back in the shadows till help is needed. I dont mean to sound so pessimistic but I just feel like women all over the world do this every day, and as grateful as I am to be able to hear that the baby is develpoing exactly as it should I also say to myself I have no reason to believe it wouldn't be. I go along to all appointments and so far the only one of any relevance at all was my initial appointment where they checked my blood and urine. Everyother one all they have done is listen to the heart, ask if I have any questions chat about the weather and then I go off and schedule another appointment for 6 weeks time. My mum says they should be checking my urine for protein levels every time I go in. This is another reason I feel that maybe I am not getting the care that I should be. I am more nervous of everyone elses lack of knowledge than I am of the fact I have no real idea of what should be being done in the first place. Or maybe that is why Im worried, if I knew I could say " Hey, how come you haven't done this..."
| By Michelle on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 08:17 pm: |
I really want to reply to your message Tracey, but I don't want to put any negativity out there, I don't want my (or anyone elses) experiences to taint yours. I wrote a big long message about my experiences, but I feel like it was more theraputic for me than productive or helpful for you, so I deleted it and started over.
You are a woman and you deserve to be treated with respect. Your not sick, your pregnant and your body was made by god (or whatever name you like to call it) to do this. It is a natural process and as you say, none of us would be here if our mothers hadn't gone through it for us. Who says you need anyone but your husband?
Knowlege is power.
I like your idea about putting 'allergic' on your file. Maybe you should be allergic to the gas as well? I had a similar experience on the gas to what your relatives did. Luckily it wore off some by the time I had to push (though they were still urging me to use it at the end, I refused after the epidural)
I hope you have the miraculous and beautiful birth you desire. Try to relax, as hard as it is to do so. Practice the techniques you plan to use to cope with the pain now, so that it will come naturally when you 'go into yourself' during labour.
Good Luck & Merry Christmas
Just think, next year you'll have a little one opening presents on christmas day with you!
Michelle
| By beck on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 06:32 pm: |
tracey, ohhhhh at your bubba kicking as you write. with my first two pregnancys i did not have any ultrasounds and i had infrequent visits for checkups. i asked for the most amount of time regarded as 'safe' between visits. i say arm yourself with knowledge like you are. i would suggest if you are having a hospital birth to not go too early into your labour, have you support people you can trust to keep medical intervention OUT. i had my partner and sisters and they were very aware i did not want any interferrance with my birthing of my baby. i would suggest you write your intentions up and have several copies sent to various people you think necessary and then get support person to give to your midwife when you get to hospital. i know with my second i asked for an epidural but i actually was in transition and getting ready to push, everyone knew i didn't really need/want one. good luck and my suggestion is research research research. i so agree birthing is natural and often the difficulties only start when there is interferrance! by the by i didn't have my babies weighed or measured either until hours and hours later. i just kept saying no thankyou when they wanted to do it. remember you have to consent before they can do anything. it can all wait, unless your baby is sick. it is more important to have that bubba with you constantly. GOOD LUCK
beck
| By pinky on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
Hi Tracey - as you do your research -why not check out the links on my site - there are some lovely positive birthing / pregnancy links - especially check out Lina Clerkes link - www wonderfulbirth. Lina has beautiful pregnancy relaxation CDs - I have been using them as an aid to relax during my recent illness - I send the loving vibes to my daughters unborn baby seeing Im not pregnant - grins! I used these when I had my last child and was really programed to relax in labour as I heard Linas voice in my head - a very short intense labour with my daughter , husband and a midwife - in hospital - it was lovely.
My daughter is a similar stage to you - 22 weeks - baby moving - lovely! We were all watching her belly on Chrismas day - such a special experience. She has found a website - www.birth.com.au to be helpful and was given a booklet re all standard tests when she booked into the birth centre.
pinky
| By beck on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 06:38 pm: |
how exciting pinky that your daughter is having a baby. well she will certainly have lots of loving support!
beck
| By tracey on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
I have read so much and for some strange reason I at the present am leaning towards not going to birthing classes(though I may change my mind)and let instinct
show me how to deal with my own pain. I am a chef by trade and when it comes to burns it seems every chef has a different method for coping with their own pain. I think I may try to find my own personal way to "meditate" and I already know that having my husbands face in the back of my neck and listening to him breathe, relaxes my body completely and so will request he try that through any painful stages of labour. It has been amazing so far that my husband has questioned nothing when it comes to the way I feel about anything connected to our baby. I want the nursery decorated NOW as I dont feel like the baby is "coming" it to me has been here since the moment I felt it first kick (it hasn't stopped moving since
so it is a little hard to forget it's there like in the first 4 months). Every card he signs or message he writes to me and others is from "junior " as well. It is amazing how a baby can connect two people. We have been together almost six years
and did not know that there was any way possible that we could be any closer but if we went back to the way we were I would probably feel strangely distant. Being a family is the most wonderful thing in the world!
| By Kimberley on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 06:52 am: |
Hi Tracey
it sounds like you're following your instincts which is great. That's sweet about signing things with 'junior' - bub is part of the family already!! Enjoy this special time between you and your husband, it really is lovely. Kimberley
| By phoebe on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 04:14 am: |
I wanted a natural birth, I had a 5page birthplan! Before I was in labour I was transfered out of the birthcentre and into the horrific zoo of public hospital waiting rooms. I was induced and ended up with an emergency c-section, something that I am still very upset about. I still often cry about the way I was treated and have made as formal complaint to the hospital, they have already replied with a pretty good letter and one of the doctors apologised.My partner and I want 3 or 4 or 5 children but at times nowI find myself questioning how I will go...im so terrified that I will end up having anothr C-section! I have decided that next time I will try for a home birth, and am about to take out private health cover so that if I end up having to go to hospital I can at least go private, where maybe I will be treated with respect. On the positive I have found the transition into motherhood easy and joyfilled. I LOVE being a mother. At times when I;m feeling really down about my sons birth I think of some of my friends who had "perfect" births and how hard they have found mothering, I guress if I think about it like that i'm the lucky one...birth at the most lasta a few days, being a mum is for life. I guess I just mean that we all have different struggles. I would love to here from some mums who have had VBAC (vaginal birth after ceaser). SO I can get empowered!!!
| By Kimberley on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 09:56 am: |
Hi Phoebe
I'm sorry to hear about your son's birth. That's great you wrote a letter and even received an apology from the doctor. You are so right about birth being a short time and mothering being more important. I recently got in touch with Birth Central in Sydney, as recommended by Pinky, and Renee there was just great. We talked through Elsbeth's birth, looked at what state of mind I was in, and talked about the future. Interestingly, no-one believed me I was in labour, including the midwife when I rang the hospital so Renee said that made me retreat into my inner child who pretty much feels not listened to and wants to be a good girl and keep everyone else happy. So that's what I did. I was annoyed with the midwife on the phone and asked her credentials as I thought how on earth could she think I wasn't in labour. It turned out that I got her and then to keep the peace I didn't ask for a different midwife. It just went downhill from there and basically the hospital orchestrated Elsbeth's birth and they had a field day with 'the extremely compliant' patient that I was. Renee made me write down 3 affirmations before I left and here they are and I hope they help you and other mums trying for VBACs:
1. Elsbeth gave me her wonderful life and the opportunity to learn about birthing naturally
2. I will have a wonderful, healthy pregnancy and be fully prepared for birth
3. I am a POWERFUL BIRTHING MOTHER GODDESS whose body knows how to give LIFE!!!
best wishes, Kimberley
| By beck on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
phoebe i am sorry you had a disappointing birth experience. just wanted to mention that my sister in law had a c-section for her first baby as he was breech, she had two successful vaginal births after him. good luck.
beck
| By Amanda on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:44 pm: |
Phoebe, I found this thread incredibly helpful http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=4188. Hope you do to. Another related thread that gave me goosies http://www.forums.naturalparenting.com.au/showthread.php?t=12271. Loads of stories there too. Ill be joining you =o) take care Amanda
| By Amanda on Sunday, January 29, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
in having a VBAC that is - sorry realised that didnt make sense. =o)
| By phoebe on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 03:24 pm: |
Thanks for that info, all of you. I really want to startr researching all of this and next time I wont let the sames things happen...I was also very compliant...thats one of the comments the hospital made "but you agreed to all the treatment". But you can agree and agree if you know what I mean.
| By Amanda on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
Absolutely! More power to you... take care Amanda
| By Kimberley on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 06:48 pm: |
It's hard to say know when they've got you by the short and curlies!!!! Kimberley
| By Michelle on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:34 pm: |
LOL very funny Kimberley!! I love your sense of humour :P
you know, I've been thinking alot about my birth experience and how I felt a bit ripped off and dissapointed with myself about needing the epidural. And then it occured to me, that Taliver crowned with an elbow smushed up with his head- so that probably had something to do with why my labour wasn't progressing as fast as we would have liked, and also why I couldn't cope with the pain. It probably was more painful than your average head presentation. And it also sort of explains why after I had the epidural the labour progressed quicker- my body didn't feel the elbow-and-head and so wasn't fighting it.
so maybe it is lucky that I was in hospital and had the epidural when I did and maybe it all happened as it was meant to happen.
There are still things that I wish hadn't been done- the syntocinin, pressuring me to use the gas when I just wanted to vocalise, being tied to the bed(because of the syntocanin), not being allowed to breastfeed until TJ was 'clean' (and then falling asleep while the midwife was trying to show me what to do) and having to share a room at the hospital.
But the two biggest things that I wanted happened; I have a healthy beautiful boy who is still avidly breastfeeding! So there is a lot to be thankful for too.
Phew! who needs therapy when I've got you guys??
Michelle
| By Amanda on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 10:06 pm: |
LOL Michelle, this circle of sisters in motherhood is a strong bond. You said it perfectly - it all happened as it was meant to happen. Now the wiser too so its all good. Makes it easier fighting for what you want next time huh! Take care Amanda
| By Kimberley on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 10:59 pm: |
Yay Michelle,
you're right, you got your healthy happy boy who's feeding like a trooper. And yes, if your body was fighting it, the epidural helped you to keep going!! Silly they had to 'clean' him. You know they took Elsbeth to another room to be assessed, they did ask my permission through Damien, but it seemed like they were telling me that was what they were doing; had no idea I could object or ask to have her brought to my chest. Like you say Amanda, all the wiser for next time. I'm really thankful for all the support here too guys!! Kimberley
| By beck on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 02:33 pm: |
michelle bloody hell elbow and head far out i think i would want to fight that pain. with nurses taking babys away from their mothers this just is so annoying. i had two natural births with my older boys and just refused to let them take my babys away. with my youngest i had to have an emergency c-section (long story) and they wanted to take him away (while they stitched me up) i said no and then they said oh he'll be with dad and i said i don't care he needs to be with me. well i started crying and begging them not to take him so they didn't but they were p'ed off. then they told me i didn't need to worry about breastfeeding in recovery as i was too sick, needless to say i fed in recovery, i was not liked as i was not compliant at all. but buggar them he's my baby. i suggest you keep on your toes whether it's first second or third time hospital staff will often try and get you to do what suits them not you and your baby. my motto 'just say no'!
beck
| By phoebe on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 07:43 pm: |
Thats a great story Beck, I wish I had said no to them taking him away...but I didn't. I so miss that I never held him naked to my naked chest after he was born...but you can only change the future right? So Im planning a home birth next time and if for some reason it doesn't work that way Im going to take my midwife to hospital and Im going to be ruthless in getting what I want!!! The more I think about how they set me up...tethered to 2 machines on either side of me in a bright, cold room I think its no wonder things turned out the way they did!!! Maybe we could all get "just say no" or Should it be "Just say Know"? printed on tshirts next time we decided to give birth in a hospital!
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 08:21 pm: |
Like that Beck, 'just say no, just say no, just say no'!!!
| By Amanda on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:47 am: |
Yes too wish I had the strength to say no at the time. Good for you Beck! Its not a bloody popularity contest anyway yeah!
| By Pinky on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 06:34 pm: |
Phoebe - what a fabulous slogan - "just say "know".
I meet so many women who feel 'ripped off' by their birth experience and yet find it soo hard to get through to parents who are about to birth first baby that we can ony have each bub once and this experience is indelibly imprinted in our psyches forever-I am well aware that there are degrees of dispappointment and a healthy mum and bub are the ultimate goal. However, by participating in the experienc - knowing all you can beforehand and discussing what you expect from your support people - plus taking one other person besides your parter is important to the outcome/ your feelings of being empowered and beginning motherhood confident - or not. I dont try and scare them (this is very personal at the moment) but have no idea how to stress the importance of doing at least one more class than what is offered at your chosen hospital - find somebody else who can help you work out what is important to you and ASK for it well before you are stuck on a bed with somebodys fingers in your vagina/unable to move/ in the hormonal zone where you should be free to flow with labour, not have to feel helpless and confused. Dont blame yourselves for not having the strength to say 'no' -how are you supposed to know you have a choice even tho its YOUR baby and YOUR body! This isnt the hormonal zone where you can easily be assertive - until you get up to baby no 3! Like Beck!! It was no 4 for me when i had to 'crack it'. But it felt so wrong to have to bring out the mother lioness at a time when it I should have felt peaceful and supported
Anyone here who is currently pregnant in Melbourne may be interested in checking out an active birth workshop this weekend by lina Clerke www.wonderfulbirth.com or a workshop by Rhea Dempsey - www.birthingwisdom.com.au .
Pinky
| By Phoebe on Sunday, February 5, 2006 - 08:51 pm: |
I went to a few of Rheas sessions before I had my son and I went to a lot after...I can completely recoment her she is fantastic!
| By Amanda on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 04:58 pm: |
In case anyone is interested I found on Capers a number of books related to VBAC
CS0046 OPEN SEASON: SURVIVAL GUIDE FOR NATURAL CHILDBIRTH & VBAC IN THE 90s by Nancy Wainer-Cohen ($66.00)
CS0057 SILENT KNIFE: CAESAREAN PREVENTION AND VAGINAL BIRTH AFTER CAESAREAN by Nancy Wainer-Cohen & Lois Estner ($77.00)
MI2445 THE CAESAREAN by Michel Odent ($49.95)
CS0255 THE VBAC COMPANION: THE EXPECTANT MOTHER'S GUIDE TO VAGINAL BIRTH AFTER CESAREAN by Diana Korte ($39.95)
CS0222 VAGINAL BIRTH AFTER CESAREAN by Elizabeth Kaufmann ($29.95)
HTH
| By Kimberley on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 11:47 pm: |
Thanks Amanda,
will check out, cheers Kimberley
| By Kiran on Sunday, April 9, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
Rhea is IT.
I need say no more.
Love, Kiran
| By Kiran on Sunday, April 9, 2006 - 01:49 pm: |
I will say more actually - don't have a baby in Melbourne without booking into the 'Choices for Childbirth' talks.
By the way,
RHEA, RHEA, RHEA.
Love, Kiran.
| By Pinky on Wednesday, April 12, 2006 - 09:09 pm: |
Go kiran!!!
Pinky
| By Kylie Homebirth on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 04:06 am: |
Homebirth experience:
I had a fantastic homebirth with my first child at the age of 36 (born 21st July 2006). My baby girl was born in a birthing pool in our kitchen. I delivered her while my husband held me. Our independant midwife was amazing and helped me through 9 hours of hard labour without drugs.
I don't think that when you are in labour you are in a position to say no. The only way that I could see to guarantee that you will get what you want is to have a homebirth with an independant midwife. Thankfully I had a midwife who understood and agreed with the way I wanted to give birth. By the end I was exhausted and would have done anything that she suggested.
If you are in a hospital with shift changes and staff that you have never met before you could end up with a birth that is not at all what you intended.
I have a friend who were very disappointed (and became distressed) when their obstetrician didn't show up until near the end (he was finishing his game of golf) - it is midwives who are there for the labour. Obstetricians are for complicated births not normal ones.
I am a veterinarian and did a lot of research into what type of birth I wanted to have. I came to the conclusion that a homebirth was as safe or safer than a hospital birth in terms of survival rates for babies BUT hospital births are actually MORE DANGEROUS due to the high rates of UNECESSARY intervention. I also live 10 minutes from the major public maternity hospital in my capital city so if a transfer was necessary it would be quick. When animals give birth they like to birth in a quite, private safe place - most horses give birth in the middle of the night. Going into a hospital to give birth is very likely to interrupt the process of labour - while giving birth at home allows it to continue uninterrupted.
Private hospitals in Australia have ridiculous rates of intervention (50% + caesarean), public hospital birthing centres are a reasonable option - but if you have to stay in their is no guarantee your partner can stay with you or that you will get the midwife you spent your pregnancy getting to know, the rates of intervention and caesarean in public hospital labour wards are twice what the world health organisation recommends (around 30%, >15% is considered excessive).
Factors that I believed helped my labour were:
- having an independant midwife who totally believed that I could give birth at home completely naturally (she was right) - 9lb2oz baby without drugs
- Pre-natal yoga was great in lots of ways - a chance to chat with other pregnant women and share experiences, I found myself using the moves I had learnt particularly in the early parts of labour. I went to class on the evening that I went into labour.
- lots of exercise: swimming, cycling (20 minute gentle rides) - did this until 5 days before I
gave birth
- hypnotherapy. Very good relaxation tool. Was helpful in the early part of labour. When things got really hard not so good - but probably helped me conserve my energy earlier on. Only did a very short course - may be more beneficial if do longer course
- an extremely supportive husband who believed in the homebirth (he is also a vet)
Things that could have been better:
- women who had given birth in hospital were very discouraging of my homebirth. They thought it was 'dangerous' etc. When I successfully gave birth at home they considered this to be due to 'luck' not to the fact that birth is a normal part of life - I had a normal birth and was also well prepared physically and emotionally
- while my mum wouldn't say anything her disapproval was quite apparent.
- a friend who read a 1 paragraph article in a newspaper that said homebirth may not be as safe as hospital birth sent me a text msg a few weeks before I was due to give birth asking if I could change my mind. I found the source article - which also said homebirth may be as safe as hospital birth and had a lot of statistics infavour of homebirth. That time just before birth was a vulnerable time emotionally for me (big belly, tired, nervous/excited about the birth) etc. I wouldn't give anyone advice at that stage of pregnancy.
I hope this isn't too long. For anyone considering a homebirth I highly recommend it - as long as you have a backup hospital in case you need it (which is very unlikely) and you are healthy, without complications and well prepared.
Extra benefits - no tearing just a minor graze which healed up quickly.
Kylie
| By AmyS on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:11 am: |
I love reading homebirth stories. I had a fantastic birth centre birth, but Drs intervened (I believe unnecessarily) afterwatrds and I'm still trying to recover from that. I REALLY want/ed a homebirth but husband says no way (has done no reading at all, it's just fear talking). Any ideas on convincing him??
Amy
| By Michelle on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 01:06 pm: |
Thanks for sharing your storie Kylie!
I am already planning to have a homebirth for no.2 (not yet though!!) and am really glad that my husband agrees, I think he felt as disempowered by the birth of my son as I did!
Its always lovely to read homebirth stories, and you know what, the only 'bad' ones I've heard are ones where they end up transfered to the hospital, but I think these days, women who transfer get treated better, in an effort to 'convert' them back to the hospital system.
That's a shame your husband is so dead-set against it Amy. Perhaps you could do the reasearch and drop some facts and figures into the conversation now and then?
Michelle
| By AmyS on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 07:33 pm: |
Thanks Michelle, I have done so much reading it's coming out my ears! Problem is DH won't. He was actually not completely opposed before my daughter was born. We even interviewed some HB midwives. It was only after I haemmorhaged and he saw what happened to me in the hospital that he's become so dead set against it. Ironic really. My mindset is 'If I hadn't been in the hospital the drs never would have done what they did (all unneccessary). His viewpoint is 'thank god were were there, so the doctors could 'help' so quickly.' *sigh*
Oh, And I have rung Rhea and am waiting to see her
| By Kimberley on Sunday, October 1, 2006 - 08:13 pm: |
Hi Kylie and Amy,
thanks for sharing your experiences. It sounds like you had a wonderful homebirth Kylie and your advice is great.
Amy, do you mind me asking what factors you think added to your haemorrhage? Was it to do with delivery of the placenta, ie was it augmented? I understand if you don't want to go into it or if you would prefer to email me that would be great on k_jepson@optusnet.com.au.
thanks
Kimberley
| By AmyS on Monday, October 2, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
Hi Kimberley,
Nope, don't mind talking about it at all. It's actually refreshing to talk to people who don't take a 'dr knows best' attitude! Have emailed you anyway so as not to bore everyone else!
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
Thanks Amy
| By julie on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 03:47 pm: |
has any one been induced before i had it oh me god tens time hurtfull than normal birth i say never again but 7 months and i would like one in couple of yrs am i crazy.
| By Tamika on Friday, March 16, 2007 - 12:44 pm: |
I have had 2 children, one at a hospital and one family birthing centre. I would go family birthing every time. The hospital birth was like a three ring circus with 1 doctor and 4 nurses an intern myself my husband and good friend - total people = 9! My God. Everyone putting in their 2 cents worth and very hands on - horrible. Second time round myself and my husband and a midwife at a distance on hand. Beautiful, quiet no ones hands on me in me anywhere near me - a beautiful experience. My baby girl never left my sight and I was at home the next day with visits from the midwife.
| By Vanessa on Wednesday, April 4, 2007 - 12:30 am: |
I have never been induced, have always (twice) waited until the baby was ready to emerge itself. 10 and 14 days overdue ....
I think there are positives and negatives to both. There has to be some sort of bonus size wise on not having a baby 2 weeks overdue. There is also that fear factor of when is this baby coming?
| By Rainee on Sunday, April 8, 2007 - 08:01 pm: |
hi,
I had a c-section with my first baby and am concerned that I will be told to have a c-section for my second delivery. I will be having the baby at Nambour hospital, is it possible to say that you want to have a vbac, is it a choice we can make. My first labour resulted in a c-section due to failure to progress. I am concerned that by having another c-section, you have to have them before the due date and that the baby may not be ready. Does anybody think this causes distress to the baby and thus leads to problems with the baby.
| By julie on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 02:00 pm: |
Hi Rainee.I understand what you are saying, But sometimes it just has to be,what if something happens to the baby if the doctors don't take matters in there own hands. It's good to know that the option is there. But over all i love the natural way.Cheers Julie
| By Amanda R on Monday, April 9, 2007 - 09:38 pm: |
as long as bubs is not in any danger and there isn't a medical reason why, then I can't see why you should have a scheduled c-section. You really must tell the hospital that it is very important to you to try a VBAC...if they don't know your feelings they may be more likely to 'book you in'. I'm the opposite to most, had a vaginal delivery for my daughter but had surgery on my cervix after she was born. This surgery caused scarring on my cervix which prevented me from dilating and resulting in a c-section for my 2nd child. I laboured for 2 days though and we tried EVERYTHING before having that c-section. If I was to have another child (not likely) then I would be booked in at 38 weeks as I can't deliver normally. IF you have some medical obstruction that means you must have a C-section then the hospital will tell you that. Otherwise you should try a VBAC as each birth progresses differently and you may have a totally different experience this time. BTW - Vaginal delivery whilst more painful is sooooo much better. I have huge emotional issues as I never got to hold my baby for over 3 hours after the c-section due to complications (my complications not his).
| By Pinky on Tuesday, April 10, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
Hi Vanessa - absolutely agree re inductions for overdue -my induction wasnt for being overdue ( it was for ruptured membranes over 24 hrs) I got stuck in a new location recently moved from NZ where birth was treated as a natural event so I unwittingly ended up being uninformed and unprepared re this particular hospital philosophy. I also had a bub 14 days overdue dates and all was well- big bub as were all my others even on time ( 9 to 10 pounds).
Rainee - I suggest you engage your own midwife - you can then stay at home longer, have less chance of intervention and will labour more effectively as you feel safe and supported by your familiar midwife in your own home - I know a fabulous person in Qland - not sure of my geography but Lois is on the Sunshine coast
see her website -/www.birthjourney.com/ she may know about the hospital you are going to and be able to advise re hopsital policy and which would be the best way to aim for a vbac.
Also take a look at www.joyousbirth.com.au
I had a lovely email a couple of weeks ago from a mum who came to my classes after her first bub - a traumatic caesarean - she had just had baby 2 - a natural, drugfree waterbirth at home in NZ!
It can be done!!! As long as there is no medical reason and it seems that what happened last time will not affect this birth, so you have a really good chance. Some things to work through - did you have an epidural early?( this can slow labour/ cascade intervention) were you able to be active in labour - this helps labour progress; what was the hospital definition of 'failure to progress?" Some have rigid measurements that can be stressful and this can hinder progress.
I say, talk to a midwife and work out a plan - inform yourself and take a support person who will be with you as well as your partner.
Best wishes,
Pinky
| By rainee on Wednesday, April 11, 2007 - 09:50 am: |
Thanks,
I have emailed Lois, so will wait to hear from her. Thanks for the info. With regards to failure to progress, basically heaps of things went off track, waters didn't break, didn't dilate properly, cervix lip only back on one side or something and then in the end he was stuck in my pelvis, so no matter how hard i pushed he wasn't going anywhere. It was a very long labor and Dylan was quite big 4.1kgs with a big head. Had the first epidural right near the end when it was all too much and then had a top up just before surgery. I don't know if things could of been done differently or if this was just the way it was. Probably a bit of both.
Cheers
Rainee
| By Claire (Rhubarb) on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 - 04:43 pm: |
Hi there,
I am not currently pregnant but my partner and I are thinking about trying for our second child (it's not a oincidence that number one has just started sleeping well! ). However, our first labour ended in caesarean and I really want to avoid a repeat. We have since moved from Melbourne to the country (Bendigo) and I am wondering if anyone knows anything about the services up here? The only impression I have is that the local hospital is not very supportive of vaginal birth. ::sigh::
Does anyone have experience of HBAC? Does anyone know any good doctors in the bendigo region who might be supportive of HBAC?
Thanks, Claire
| By Pinky on Wednesday, June 20, 2007 - 11:59 pm: |
Hi Claire,
A good place to ask these questions may be the Joyous Birth website - www.joyousbirth.com.au
Janet who owns the site had a HBAC and is passionate about womens choices. Or you could post on the ozmidwifery email list - you dont have to be a midwife to post, although there are mostly midwives there. See www.birthinternational.com.au to join.
Have you read gentle Birth, Gentle Mothering by Sarah Buckley - www.sarahjbuckley.com
Best wishes in your search.
Pinky
| By beck on Monday, June 25, 2007 - 08:35 am: |
i have a friend who had a HBAC, she was very commited and had alot of support, hope you find the same support in Bendigo. good luck, you can do it.
beck
| By katy on Monday, August 6, 2007 - 01:13 pm: |
I am new to melbourne and looking for birth centre/hospital that allows you to choose minimum intervention. I live near the city so looking for something in inner suburbs. Can anyone recommend a birthing centre or hospital in the inner city area? I also have multiple fibroids and worried that a birthing centre in a public hospital may say it's too complicated.
| By julie on Monday, August 6, 2007 - 03:22 pm: |
Hi Katy.
I'm Not Shure If This will help or not. But I heard this is a good hospital. And if it's not What ur looking for Perhaps then ask the hospital if there is a hospital near u For minimum intervention i'm shure they will give better advice then me and guide u what ur looking for.
www.rwh.org.au 132 gratton st carlton Vic (03) 9344 2000.
Good Luck Katy. Cheers Julie.
| By Pinky on Sunday, August 12, 2007 - 09:20 am: |
Hi Katy
My daughter had a beautiful waterbirth at Monash medical centre - not sure which side of teh city you are. RWH has a birth cntre but I have heard they are sometimes closed at night - ask them about this.
Do you have private health insurance?
Also a good idea is to have a doula or your own midwife - with your own midwife you can stay at home longer in labour and will eb supported/ informed whther in hospital or at home so intervention is less likely. See www.bellybelly.com.au for info re doulas and also the Pink Kit -a childbirth ed kit (not a substitute for classes but a great skills info pack) Belly belly also sell some beautiful birth DVDz - inexpensive and very inspirational. ALso check out www.wonderfulbirth.com for active birthing classes with Lina Clerke - I would recommend her relaxation CDs - a great help in labour. Rhea Dempsey is a great chilbirth educator birth support person who has prenatal support classes ( in Fairfield) see www.birthingwisdom.com.au
This will help you get into the right 'maze' in Melbourne.
Best wishes,
Pinky
| By AmyS on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:33 am: |
Absolutely go with Monash Birth Centre also. Beautiful midwives and I also had a wonderful water birth there too. My first choice would still be home birth, but the birth centre at Monash is a great second!
Oh, we lived in the hills at the time and I still chose Monash as it was the best by far
| By AmyS on Monday, August 13, 2007 - 11:34 am: |
Also recommend Rhea
| By Anna on Sunday, April 19, 2009 - 10:14 pm: |
Hi
I am 22 weeks and am trying to plan ahead for the birth of my second baby. My first birth despite a healthy pregnancy went pear shaped and in the end I had a trial by forcepts in the theater and then lots of stitches etc. Anyway after having totake my baby to a chiropractor to realign everthing (which fixed his colic) I had a healthy baby.
He will be turning 2 when the next one is due. my problem is, is that he is still breastfeeding and that is how I put him to sleep. My husband works 7 days/week and so is not really good at setteling him (actually he has never put him to sleep yet!)He has only just atarted to sleep through and in his own bed ( I co-slept and he has started to sleep in his own cot at his own choice)I have no planns to wean, but I am stressed about staying in hospital the few nights that are reccomended (for rest recovery etc) due to my other sons dependance on me.
Am I being selfing if I stay in hospital despite my sons possible stress of my absence, or should I go home and get home care instead?
Has anyone else been in this position? What tips or suggestions can you offer me while I still have time to change routines etc.
Anna