By Tracey Plant on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 06:37 am:

I'm starting to feel desperate about Kai's sleeping/feeding. He is 17 wks tomorrow and his sleeping patterns are worse than when he was a newborn and seem to be deteriorating all the time. I am in tears or close to it every time he wakes. We have let Kai set the pace in terms of feeding and sleeping, but it is getting too much for me now. I just don't know what to do. How do we gently change his sleeping pattern?

Last night was a little worse than usual, but will give you a good idea: at 5:30ish I fed him a full feed (emptied both breasts) then he had a bath and a story and I fed him again - he only had one side before he fell asleep. I popped him in the bassinet (next to our bed) and he went straight to sleep. 1/2 an hour later he woke again and I gave him the other side. He woke again at 8:00, settled him with the dummy. Woke at 11:30, had both sides. Woke at 2:00, had both sides and was wide awake, we put him in our bed it took 1 1/4 to go back to sleep. Woke at 5:00, tried to feed him to sleep (lying down) he didn't feed properly - desperate to be on the boob, but not really sucking. After 1/2 hour of trying we got up.

About 2 weeks ago I started the feed, bath, feed routine (Pinky suggested cluster-feeding to help settle him in the evening). It has been great in terms of cooking/eating dinner and spending time with hubby. The 1st 4 nights he only woke once during the night and again at 6:30. We were delighted but, as I say, it's been getting steadily worse and now he's waking every 2 1/2 hours. When he was a newborn he slept 4hrs, 4hrs, 3hrs, so we've definately gone backwards.

I am dead against cc in any way but don't know what to do. Has anyone tried the 'No cry sleep solution"? Is it gentle? I haven't read it, just heard of it. Any suggestions are welcome, I can't do this much longer. I keep telling myself that he will start solids in 6/7 weeks and things will improve then, but I don't think I can cope for that long. Sorry to be such a drama-queen but I am cracking.

By rebeccab on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 08:05 am:

First of all tracey, I feel for you. it seems so desparing and all consuming and it is hard to see how anything will 'fix' it. it will get better , probably if you do nothing and maybe if you try some gentle methods.
solids is not the magic bullet that it seems to be, tracey. i have heard very few people say that they saw any significant improvemnt so try not to look to that as your salvation.


you need to get some help for yourself now. are you getting some help in the day so you can top up a bit? have a shower or a snooze or an entire cup of tea beofre it's stone cold (was anyone else shocked by the inability to finish a hot drink after baby was born? i found it to be the thing I had never anticipated!). have you got supports near you? that is really important because as much as you think that you need to commit every minute to changing Kai's sleep so you can all live sanely, you will go bonkers if you don't care for yourself. For me it spiraled into an anxiety driven form of postnatal depression and I was so focussed on the job that I couldn't spare a minute for anything else, and I got more and more tense with every waking, every nap, every time he cried.

nor is contolled crying the answer. there are so many more negatives than alleged positives and it will probably fuel your feelings of yuckiness.
no cry sleep solution is an interesting read and we worked with that for a while. it might be helpful inthat it is pretty concrete in some steps to take but beware, for yourself of getting too caught up in something prescriptive and rigid, it made me feel like someone else knew my baby better than me. but give it a read for some ideas, I especially liked her ideas about bedtime and low stimulus, low lights. have you read pinky's sleep book? highly recommended.
sounds like you are going really well, listening to Kai's cues and putting one foot in front of the other. don't forget that a measure of success is not how many hours your baby sleeps but try looking at success being when you are all being cared for when you need it, fed when you need it and comforted when you need it. (that's ALL of you) you are not doing anything wrong to MAKE him have disturbed sleep, he is just finding his way in the world.
I have a rule of 3's - it needs to be 3 days in a row, or 3 nights in a row of anything before I 'll think it is any more than a random thing and then I'll get to thinking about 'solutions' (usually getting help till it sorts out rahter than any active sloving) i often found that there wasn't many 3 crap nights in a row, there was some improvement to be found, even if we reset the 3 and it started again.
I don't think I have been much sens e or help (sick bub for 3 days including a hospital trip so not a lot in the grey matter departement) but try to keep finding the tiny joyful bits and string them together instead of seeing a big pile of poo. and rally the troops girl, get some reinforcements.
take care,
we are all here,
becc

By Michelle on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 01:11 pm:

Aww, that's lovely advice Becc!

I don't have much else to add- except that my bub was the same, slept 4 - 5 hour stretches as a newborn, 6-8 months of age was probably the peak of my sleep deprivation and the 1-2 hour awakenings (And I was the same as Becc at this stage, rigidly spending every waking moment trying to get him to sleep longer, sounder, better and more often- and in the process driving myself crazy. Then one day I just went "F*** it!! lets just do whatever!!" and while his sleep didn't improve instantly, I did and I was able to cope with things alot better, be a happier mummy and survive until he did start sleeping better at 12 months. )

It is horrible to be so stressed and so sleep deprived, it won't last, but while you are in the midst of it, you really need to get some help so that you can get some sleep and feel sane again. Changing his sleep patterns is do-able, but it is extremely gradual, so if you are caught up with watching the clock, only feeling happy and successful when he sleeps well it can be very draining and dampening.

No cry sleep soloution does have some good ideas, but I wouldn't bother with the sleep charts and things, it will only get you down when he doesn't sleep the way the books says he should.

I know that probably isn't the answer you are looking for, (I remember being frustrated when I was desperately seeking 'the cure' and not finding much that helps instantly)
but, hopefully you will feel better if you've had some more rest and some help. And then you'll be able to think more clearly about what you want to do.

Hugs
Michelle

By Amanda R on Monday, October 16, 2006 - 11:39 pm:

I can only affirm what Becc and Michelle say - if it helps at all, it can be reassuring to know that lots of others out there are going through and have been through what you are experiencing right now. Sleep deprivation is a cruel thing. My children both slept better as newborns and gradually got worse - peaking at around 5 1/2 months...but somewhere along the way it gets easier, perhaps we accustom somewhat to less sleep and they perhaps sleep a bit better. But you do get through it and now you need to muster as much help as you can with the day to day stuff. Can someone come for a couple of hours every now and then so you can catch up on some sleep...even a rest perhaps?? Don't feel too proud to ask for help - I was and now I dunno why lol! Mum would have relished some time with her grandkids and I could have had a nap.
The best solution I found that worked for me was to stop watching the clock & if she woke,she woke if she slept she slept (my daughter was more trouble sleep wise than my son, although she conditioned us well). Somehow by not watching the clock and throwing out all pre conceived ideas of how she should be sleeping, seemed to take the pressure off me.
Please don't compare what others say about their babies either. I used to hear my friends say how their babies were sleeping through the night at only 3 months and it didn't come out till babies #2 came along how their babies really were lol!
I'm with Becc re the solids, my daughter didn't even want to know about them till she was nearly 12 months old, and my son loved them but got nasty tummy pains while his system accustomed to managing them and still woke just as much at night even when on solids. DIfference being that he wanted a tin of banana custard instead of boobie (boobie being the easier option)!
You are not being a drama queen Tracey, its darn hard coping with a new baby and then just when you expect things to change for the easier they get tougher. I know I haven't offered any advice or help but I hope it helps simply knowing that we understand. Hugs ooo

By Tracey Plant on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 08:11 pm:

Thanks for your support Ladies. Monday was a black day for me. That night was pretty bad again, but I felt a lot more composed. Last night Kai only woke 2x and I'm feeling much better.

I guess what was/is getting me down is that I knew we would be waking up a lot, and I fully expect to be up most nights till he's about 3, but I did expect that it would slowly get better from birth. I definately didn't expect it to get worse! Anyway . . . I have a friend that says if you have no expectations, you can't be disappointed and it's so true! If I hadn't expected that he would be sleeping a bit better by now, I wouldn't be upset that he isn't!

So thanks again for your kind words. I'm sure I'll be back with a few more melt-downs!

Becc, I hope your baby is all better now? I'm not looking forward to all those illnesses and frights, must be very stressful!

Take care.

Tracey + Kai

By Michelle on Wednesday, October 18, 2006 - 08:17 pm:

Hi Tracey,

Yeah, that was a bit of a shock for us too, we thought he was a 'good' sleeper because he slept 4 hour stretches at night when we brought him home from hospital and I had expectations that I would be getting up during the night- for the first 6 months or so LOL!! so when he got worse, i panicked and thought that it must be MY fault and what we were doing was causing it.

Hugs
Michelle

By rebeccab on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 07:30 am:

MElt down as regularly as need be, Tracey. Sometimes the propoganda of parenting makes it hard to reconcile the reality of a real baby, and makes it REALLY hard to find the joy. Sounds like you are doing a terrific job so call for support as often as you think will help you.
Thanks for your concern about my little bub. we've been very lucky with health, helped I'm sure by breastfeeding but seamus (16mths) had a gut bug, not particularly worrying alone, but hadnn't wee-ed for 16 hours and had vomited 30+ times and was semi conscious. a little distressing. so rehydration and lots of love and observation and 6 days down the track, he is only just starting to improve, so we are all pretty buggered, and he is a big moochy bear, cuddle cuddle. so the house has just stopped for that, library for books and videos, lots of toasted sangas and stuff the 'jobs' the washing and cleaning can wait.
a big punch in the priorities, not a bad thing at all.
glad to hear you seeming a little brighter,
becc

By Pinky on Thursday, October 19, 2006 - 10:26 am:

You girls are such AMAZING mums - what lucky babies you have. And what supportive and wise women you are to each other - it is so refreshing to read your posts after a day at the 'coalface' reassuring mums who contact me. I do hope they all come hear and read too.

As you have probably seen, I have had some more trouble with spammers -my husband got in here last night and I think was 'fiddling' to try and block them - not sure if its going to work but it looks clean this morning so fingers crossed.

Hugs to you and your little ones.

Anyone going to expo in melbourne? -I will be at the belly belly stand on Friday 12 til 2. And again on Sunday afternoon so say hello if you are there.

Pinky