3/5 03:10pm
3/5 03:10pm
     By Heidi McWilliam on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:28 am: |
13:31:54 07/15/00
Infant massage is a wonderful way to assist not only your child to relax but also relaxes the parent simultaneously. It is important to interpret your childs body language throughout massage (for infants who cannot communicate through speach) so you can prevent over-stimualtion and show your child respect. Infant massage comprises all the elements of bonding, eye contact, skin contact, smell, and voice and is therefore calming, soothing and reassuring to an infant. For any information on infant massage, including parent courses, contact the Infant Massage Information Service: (02)9837 6326 or infantmassage@hotmail.com
| By Anne Burke. on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 12:45 am: |
Re: Calming babies/childrenPinky 19:12:15 07/13/00
When my oldest son (Jordan, now almost 4) was little, the easiest way to calm him was to stick him on the boob! That's the way I now calm my second son (Logan, 4 1/2 months). Jordan is a full on child, very energetic and sometimes seems hellbent on disrupting everything and everyone in his path, and if we were that way inclined, would probably have been on drugs a long time ago! But we are not interested in going down that path. While I don't have any specific tips for calming him, we take each day (and sometimes hour and minute) as they come. We try lots of different things, but not much ever works twice as Jordan is very intelligent and independent. I console myself with thoughts that he is going to turn into a beautiful older child!
| By Kristy Regan on Wednesday, August 1, 2001 - 12:17 pm: |
My now nine month old daughter, Annalise, suffered from colic as a newborn which meant hours of crying (both of us) and lots of "experts" offering advice. We tried the advice that sounded worthwhile and politely forgot the rest as soon as we were told. After about 3 months she started to overcome this painful thing and life started to settle down. We consulted a naturopath about the colic and she was able to assist however, what seemed to work the best was small, frequent breastfeeds and lots of cuddles, mum and dad included.
I still like to offer lots of cuddles if that is what she wants as the dishes will wait but Annalise will not want cuddles forever before it becomes "uncool" so I am going to give as many as I can now while they are appreciated. Our critics say we are doing the wrong thing and not letting her become independent. I say we are giving her the confidence to know we are there if we are needed. My question is how can it be wrong when it feels so right? Hence when we are with their children they get included in the cuddles as well.
| By Gillian van Niekerk on Monday, August 6, 2001 - 10:46 am: |
Take the baby for a walk outside. This will either, a) distract her, or b) put her to sleep. And for you it will a) distract you and b) help you get some much needed fresh air and exercise. Hopefully this will help you cope at night, when most of us can enlist the help of our partner.
Most importantly, love her. Hold her while she cries, it feels so nice to be held while you're crying. She will feel your love, and it may take days, weeks or months, but the crying will pass and you will have loved her through it all.
| By Melissa Hill on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 04:41 am: |
Since every child is different, all I can say is try everything at least once. We've done vibrating bouncy chairs, driving in the car, walking up and down stairs, sticking them in their cot and hiding in the TV room, cool baths, warm baths, bottles of water/tea/gripewater/younameit...
For the first child, we finally found she fell asleep to a Sheryl Crow CD by the middle of the second track. For the second child, she just seemed to be plain old thirsty (must've been that hot weather).
There is no fool-proof way to get every child to calm down, and some children won't calm down no matter what you do. Just tell yourself that it is a sure sign of genius. Then hand them off to a grandmother and go shopping.
| By Janet Ollevou on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 10:12 am: |
My sure-fire baby calmer is my exercise ball - I used it to keep fit during pregnancy and now it works wonders to calm my 8 week old baby when he cries.
One advantage of this is that I don't have to be on my feet (a plus when you are ready to drop from exhaustion!) We just put on some soft music and gently bounce, rock and swivel until sleep descends. Another plus is that my tummy muscles are getting a gentle workout at the same time!
Bub just loves the bouncing action - we use it for play as well.
| By Anonymous on Thursday, October 25, 2001 - 01:58 pm: |
While we are not a 'babywearing" culture most of us would have experienced that the majority of times when our baby is crying, when we pick them up they stop. In cultures where babies are traditionally carried in slings or pouches it is noted that these babies rarely cry or fuss. They have no need. They feel safe and connected to their mother, entertained by her activities, fed when hungry and when they are tired they simply fall to sleep. This time tested tradition works miracles for fussy babies and contented babies love it too. For information about the research on the many benefits of babywearing check out Sharon Hellers book The Vital Touch and www.hug-a-bub.com.au for a great babycarrier.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 08:20 pm: |
No 1 baby turned up, and screamed, fussed and cried through our lives for his first two years. Everyone assumed because I was a midwife that I knew what to do - but some ideas and knowledge still doesn't stop the screaming!!!
Get support, the closest family support we had was over 3 hours away. My maternal child nurse saved me psychologically in that first 6 months.
Frequent breast feeding worked with the colic in the first 3 months.
Teething was nightmarish. The usual Bonjela, Panadol, lemon juice on gums, icicles to suck and lots of rocking in the pram, even at times with a hotpack under his cheek.
Lots of hugs and cuddles, learnt to settle himself after much difficulty and yelling when he was about 15 months; but still woke often during the night - and screamed! Sometimes Mum had to put her foot down and shut the door to save the sanity.
But they do grow up, and we love them.
| By Anonymous on Friday, January 25, 2002 - 10:15 pm: |
I have read all of the mothers ideas and solutions on dealing with crying babies and relate to them all. I guess one of the points I wanted to raise is the message of how important it is to have a suportive partner to deal with the crying and everything else that goes with raising young children. I have an Early Childhood teaching background and have a 20 month old and a 2 month old. Everyone, including my partner, assumes I know what to do and cope no matter what. I spend many hours alone with the children and constantly recall my knowledge of child development to cope. Patience, flexibility,time management and organisation are strengths but nothing, and I mean nothing beats the support of a loving husband who reaches out to give a hug or a smile or even a great home cooked meal to help deal with the cry of a baby and a toddler.WE all want to feel like the old person we were prior to children.
Acceptance of the fact that babies cry is the first step. Second, holding, talking to and responding to our babies cues are so important. but there are times, no matter what we do, babies will cry. Mentally go through your head: is the nappy dirty ( some babies hate it more than others); is he / she hungry or thirsty and I make the distinction here for newborns - pre -solids stage because babies are like us - if it is hot they are more thirsty and need a quick drink as apposed to a long feed; have you changed their environment or the procedure for meeting their needs )- once you have addressed all of their basic needs then - hey - look at yourself. Are you feeling a little stressed, anxious or angry? Babies sense our emotions. It is so powerful. If you are anxious, your baby ( and toddler) wil sense it. Try and calm down. You, like myself, may or not be able to address or mchange the problems or situation that upset you, but if you can detach yourself from those feelings when around baby, then maybe it will help reduce the crying that occurs for no obvious basic reason.
There is a link between the quality of our contact with babies and brain development. There is plenty of information out there for you to research. But basically respond to your babies, do what comes naturally. As my mother often says, don't worry about the housework, focus on your baby. Talking to babies and reading books, singing songs is food for growth and development. Mentally stimulate your baby.
If you are like me and can't stand a messy house, learn to accept the fact that babies will cry, it is one of their ways to communicate. If you have met their basic needs, spent time talking and smiling with your baby in their wakeful times, then, turn up the music and clean the floors if it makes you feel better.Otherwise, grab some sleep while baby is sleeping and you will all feel better.
Better still, you may feel more wakeful and responsive to your partner when they come home from work and cook up that much needed home cooked meal with some meaningful adult conversation.
Any chance for a back rub too???
Go with the flow and enjoy their young years. Those challenging teenage years wil come soon enough, let alone when they leave home, get married and have to face their own responsibilties.
| By Anne Ince Vize on Saturday, February 2, 2002 - 03:15 am: |
I have four children and all but the last one suffered from colic. My third suffered so badly that he was offered hospitalisation. I have written an article on that exprience which was published by our local NCT -- and I'd be happy to supply a copy by email if you are interested. Four things helped : cranial osteopathy; eliminating cow's milk in my diet -- I was fully breast feeding but apparantly he could have been affected by the dairy products in my diet; and (reluctantly) supplementing him with a soy formula because he had lost so much weight through the colic. Finally I would suggest to anyone with a crying baby -- it can make you can feel close to harming your child: when you feel like this, put the baby down in his cot, close the door and give yourself some space. It is helpful to talk to someone and the UK organisation Crysis ( helpline for the parents of children who cry excessively and sleep poorly) was a great help. So was Sheila Kitzinger's book The Crying Baby. The colic lasted over 4 months but he is now a happy and well adjusted 4 year old.
| By Debby on Saturday, June 29, 2002 - 12:02 pm: |
I used a combination of common sense, comfort and controlled crying with both my sons.
I never put them to bed until I was sure all their physical needs had been met - a dry bottom, a full tummy, no wind and a good cuddle. I also instigated a bedtime routine right from early on particularly for the night-time bedtime - not so much for daytime naps. It would be bath, then a feed, then a quiet play, into bubs room, a sit and song in the rocking chair (stories were introduced around 12mths) and then into bed with one more song and a gentle pat during the song.
If they grizzled a bit when they first went down I would leave them for a few minutes and in most cases they would settle. If the crying continued I then had a set routine:
- check the physical requirements
- not too hot or cold
- nappy still dry
- no wind pains (usually picked up from the knees to chest position of the baby)
- not still hungry (if I knew they had not fed well)
- if these were fine then I would give them a quick cuddle, avoiding eye contact if possible as my pair always associated this with communication and wanting to play, and then lay them down with a tummy rub or a gentle head rub until the settled.
- I would then give them a kiss tell them they were good boys and quietly leave the room.
- If they started crying again I would go through this procedure again, but within a couple of weeks I had it down to less than 10mins a time.
My eldest slept through (10pm to 5am) by 8 wks of age and my 2nd slept through at 14wks of age. Both are still good sleepers and even now at 3 and 5yo, and we still have standard evening routines that they know - dinner, bath, some family time, stories, songs and lights out.
This is what worked for my kids and me but everyone is different.
| By Louise on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 09:17 pm: |
My partner and I have a five month old little girl who had colic and reflux up until the age of 4 months. The only way she will go to sleep is to be breastfed in our bed (due to many nights of sleeping with us, feeding every hour and me sleeping next to her). She wakes up even when I roll over or try and move her - and even if she stays asleep then - she is up after 20 minutes. There is a limit to the amount of cuddles, rocking, pacing and driving that any mother can do. I have not had more than three hours sleep in a row since she was born and I resent it being implied that just because I consider 'control crying' to be the last option, that I may not love my child as much as mothers who dont control cry. I started control crying with her a week ago - and I have had to listen to my angel scream for anywhere between 6 minutes and 120 (going in at set intervals). It has worked sometimes after 6 minutes - 24 or 30. It is not easy and I dont do it to be callous or uncaring. I just do not want to have to breastfeed her when she is 3 because that is the only way she will sleep. If I could get her to sleep any other way I would - but there are no options left. We are yet to see if control crying will work - it's been 6 days and she still screamed for 90 minutes tonight - but if it does I will have my nights back.
I will post a further message hopefully with a success story. Sometimes control crying is the only option - dont feel bad if you have to try it. People told me for weeks to just 'leave her cry' - but it wasn't until I had absolutely run out of gusto that I had to do it. She is adored and loved every minute she is awake and that is the best any parent can do. Other mums - dont feel bad if you have to control cry - it may just work and if it doesn't - at least you've tried.
I will post another message with the results.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 05:26 pm: |
I have used controlled crying with success. And must say that Debby's advise sounds very similar to the steps that I have taken.
With my first child I fell into a similar routine as Louise has. My baby fell asleep on the boob when feeding every 2 hours using the boob as a comfort and not for food.
I would like to say that controlled crying isn't just leaving your child cry endlessly.
I Started by making sure all physical needs are met and making sure they had a good long feed and are relatively calm and awake (being awake helps is helping them put themselves to sleep)
Then leaving the room wait 2 mins if crying persists re-enter room and leaving bubs in bed gently roll her away from you (so she cant see you!) and patting her till calm again not talking but I used shhh shhh shhh sounds.
Then exiting the room again and waiting 4 mins. And repeating this at 2-minute intervals. Going in to them reassures them that you’re not abandoning them.
I found that after about one week I had a great nights' sleep (10 hours +) instead of waking every 2 hours and my baby needing me to put them to sleep they did so themselves. And rarely had to re-enter the room from the first settling.
As they have grown I used a routine of Dinner, Bath, Book and lights out.
You do have to be ready to see it through but a good nights sleep is essential and I believe makes you better able to handle the day ahead, and not in Zombie mode.
I never felt like a bad mother and got all the cuddles and happiness of a well-rested baby through the day.
| By Anonymous on Wednesday, July 3, 2002 - 05:42 pm: |
From above posting I incorrectly said repeating at
2- minute intervals.
Where I meant to say increasing by 2 - minute intervals ie 2 mins, then 4 mins then 6 mins etc.
| By Barb on Friday, July 5, 2002 - 05:09 pm: |
Hi,
I just wanted to share my story. I had a similar situation to the other last two mothers. My eldest son who is now (I can't believe it!) 9 years old woke and fed every 2hrs day and night. By the time he was 5 mnths I was exhausted. I went to a sleep clinic and was taught controlled crying. I followed the controlled crying regime for 5 mnths. Initially I told myself it was working. I so badly wanted to believe it. But it didn't. When he was 10mnth old we finally gave up. What had happened in the interim was that I was completely exhausted, and my faith in my parenting was shaken. I had been told if I just did it long enough and was just consistent enough it would eventually work. So it must have been me, right? Wrong. Many babies just don't respond to those methods. I wish I'd had the confidence then to just put him in bed with me and meet his needs, the way I have with my other 2 children. They do grow up, and they're not in your bed forever. What I wish I'd been offered then, instead to the controlled crying option is some help around the house and some support for me.
Barb
| By sharon barr on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 02:28 pm: |
I have a 2.5 year old girl and a 14 week old boy. When my daughter was 8 weeks old we began using controlled crying. It was very difficult listening to my angel crying so much but within a few days she fell into a wonderful sleeping pattern which continued until 18 months old when she would wake at the very early hours and thought it was play time. We once again practised controlled crying and within one week she was back to her normal sleeping pattern. We tried controlled crying with our little boy (who has reflux) but he did not respond as well. Although he is a fabulous sleeper during the night time (mostly sleeping from 6pm to 5am) he was very unsettled during the daytime naps. We have tried everything from relaxing baths, gentle music, pram walking, rocking in our arms and anything else we could thing of. We tried the comfort crying technique which initially did not work as he did not like being put on his side (he is quite strong) and he would wriggle and squirm so much and got so distrissed that my husband and I could not do it any longer. We ended up succeeding with alot of cuddling before bed, making sure he was dry, feed, burped and after singing what seems to be his favourite song "twinkle twinkle little star" he would be calm enough to put into bed and whilst he was awake we would leave the room. If he became unsettled we would come back in and gently pat his tummy until he is almost asleep and then wait at the door until he has drifted off. We found this the best method for him but we still have trouble getting him to sleep for the recommended periods (being 2-2.5 hours for his age) during the day. We have decided that any sleep is better than none and have tried to make the most of the time we have with him whilst he is awake and just try and do the best we can when we put him to bed. My only advice to other mums experiencing difficulties getting baby to sleep is to just be persistent and try and make sure that you and your partner support each other and be consistent with your technique so as not to confuse your little one.
| By Anonymous on Monday, September 2, 2002 - 02:21 pm: |
Co-sleeping, breastfeeding and sling wearing, are by far the best ways to comfort an unhappy/colicky,unsettled baby that I know. I tried controlled crying and HATED it. My son cried his lungs out for over an hour each time, before falling asleep with sheer exhaustion and unhappiness.I was a nervous and emotional wreck.The stupidest advise I ever received was not to allow him to go to sleep on the boob. What rubbish. Breastmilk contains a hormone specifically designed to induce sleep in both mums and babies. My son is now 15 months old, and I am an avid co-sleeper, sling wearer, and breastfeeder. I have many friends who are similar, and I can honestly say, our children are the happiest, best sleepers that I know.Other great suggestion I can recommend include herbal tea or warm milk for a breastfeeding mum before bedtime and/or for an older baby too (chamomile tea is excellent) Also, Brauers natural medicines are FANTASTIC, the colic one was a lifesaver for me! I also use the teething, Infant calm, cold and flu etc, with great results. massage and warm baths are supposed to be good for some kids, but I know my son has always been too wriggly and hyper for massage, and a bath just hypes him up more! I have started a couple of support groups for mums who parent against the mainstream, which provides great ida and support to mothers who breastfeed, co sleep, babywear etc. We also have meetings in real life,(In Melbourne) which are a great support to mums parenting this way. If anyone is interested in more details, feel free to e mail me at fuschiab@yahoo.com. I also know of similar groups in Sydney and Brisbane, which I could put people in touch with if interested.
All kids are different of course, and different methods suit different kids. Some children naturally want to go to bed later than others, even as adults we all have our own rythyms and patterns Children are exactly the same. The idea of "sleeping through" is also a myth for many children. How many adults are there who "sleep through" every night with out waking? Babies sleep patterns are diferent to adults in the way they get to sleep however,they take longer to fall asleep, and do not go into such a deep sleep. This is thought by some people to be a safety thing-means they are able to wake up more easily if needs be. Co-sleeping has been the norm in most cultures for thousands of years. It is only recently that people have decided to try and force young children to sleep in separate rooms away from their mothers.I love sleeping with my son, I feel it is the best bonding experience we could have together, besides being the best way for both of us to have a good nights sleep.I know too, that it wont be long before he wont want to sleep with mum anymore, therefore I'm making the most of it while I can!
| By Nicole on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:05 pm: |
I read anonymous' letter as if I had written it myself!!! I warmly second the three sure fire ways to love/cherish/calm and bond with your baby (and children) - co-sleeping, breastfeeding (with child-led weaning)and sling wearing.
I can vouch for my 15 month old - who has only had one mild illness so far - quite astounding when I see other babies of a similar age.
I too, love sleeping next to my baby and waking up to him in bed with us in the morning.... I love breastfeeding him (and he loves his "num nums") and we both enjoy the experience of him being carried on my back with the help of my sling.
It makes for a blissful baby bonding experience...
a happy contented baby... and a Mum who's heart constantly glows!!!!
| By Michelle on Thursday, February 20, 2003 - 12:21 pm: |
The best way for me to settle my nine month old down for an all night sleep is to give her a bath after her dinner and then take her for a long walk. By the time we come back home she is asleep or very relaxed and I pop her into bed and she falls asleep within 5 minutes.
| By Anonymous on Saturday, May 17, 2003 - 12:12 am: |
Every baby is different. When my daughter was born I wanted to do the babywearing, co-sleeping thing etc. However at 7 months I had chronic back pain from carrying her about so much. She woke every 1.5 to 2 hours overnight and her day sleep was down to two 20 minute naps. Even when she was sleeping in bed with me I could not relax as she was so active that she would crawl and roll about. We were both wrecks. Control crying was very hard but what a tranformation. She sparkles during her uptime instead of constantly needing carried and diverted from her overpowering tiredness. Do what works for you. I found it easiest to try the gentle approach, I was confident I had tried everything else possible before using control crying.
| By Anonymous on Sunday, July 20, 2003 - 02:13 pm: |
This is an interesting discussion and I raise the following points...
How can you carry your baby all day and feed if you have to go back to work?
As above..what if the baby is very disruptive to your sleep??
I can see some of the benefits of natural parenting however I believe it lacks one thing..and that is independance of any kind for the mother. A lot of mothers are made to feel guilty because they use controlled crying..and yet it can be a lifesaver, especially if you must have your sleep to be able to function during the day and work..as a large percentage of the population do.
Life isn't always want you want it to be and those of us who choose to return to work and some life apart from our children...are still loving, caring parents with happy and contented children. You are the parent..you make the choices and decisions and never feel guilty because you aren't behaving as a woman in another country with a completely different lifestyle may be able to.
If you can live your life around your baby's needs..then you are blessed. If you have to operate as an individual as well...then you are too blessed to be happy with your choices!
| By Anonymous on Friday, July 25, 2003 - 12:22 pm: |
My daughter Marisa was a very unsettled baby from very early on. We tried co-sleeping but became so stressed from the conflicting advice we received from lots of sources.
We stopped co-sleeping and in desperation resorted sleep school. We were there for two weeks, I ended up being diagnosed with PND and Marisa was only a little better, but we had to go home.
Things worked fabulously for a week, but got worse as the next week went on. Distraught that Marisa had been crying for an hour and a half one night, we rang the Mother and Baby Unit for help. We were abruptly told to "Call back tomorrow we're too busy here." So we rang the Maternal Health line to be told babies can cry okay for up to two hours.
My hubby and I just looked at each other and decided that enough was enough. No baby should be allowed to cry any where near that amount of time, so we brought her into our bed and have co-slept successfully since.
I am not one to push any certin methods or styles into people. I strongly believe that every baby and parent is so very unique and I know of parents who have found sleep schools to work very well for them.
HOWEVER, If there is anything I would like to stress to parents is to listen to your heart. Give yourself permission to stop something that doesn't feel right or you don't like. Because only YOU know your baby best.
I only wish I had the courage to say no when I really wanted to spend much more time bonding with my daughter when she was only little. All she wanted was a little more skin to skin contact, the most divine feeling in the whole world. Who on earth could not tell you not to try something like that?
Kelly Zantey
| By Janet on Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 11:41 pm: |
Hi all,
we co-sleep with our 9 week old bub and are as happy can be! I often see women expressing confusion about all the advice they get about parenting. It's the same when you're pregnant. I don't know how it is for others but I don't take notice of advice unless it rings true in my gut. I have a dear friend whose ideas on parenting are similar to mine and I listened to things she said and followed some but not all - she doesn't co-sleep, for example, but her baby was as happy and relaxed as mine is. Listen to your heart and go with what helps your baby and you. All the experts in the world aren't gong to help if it's not what works in your family. Before I gave birth I researched and researched and took the homebirth option because it was the best one for me. I also did loads of research into breastfeeding and have had no problems at all despite conflicting advice from various sources. I just ignored them! Babies aren't thermonuclear devices. They just need food warmth shelter and lots of love. Simple! They don't need one rigid set of ideas that you try to mould you and them to. Our bub gets lots of skin on skin contact with us, particularly me, he's breastfed on demand, he plays and laughs and has a lovely life. People keep saying to me, "Oh you're so lucky, you got a good baby!" It's like they're saying there's such a thing as a Bad Baby! We are very calm with him and I have always just accepted that sometimes babies cry and they wake up in the night. Being calm with him has really helped him be calm. I think (and of course I'm guessing!!!) that he feels like I'm calm and taking care of him so he's safe and even if he feels like expressing his emotions through crying he's still safe and ok. I think what Kaz Cooke says is so so true - since your baby doesn't know what's wrong most of the time, how can you be expected to know? I go through my repertoire of settling moves - cuddling, darkness, skin on skin, feeding, singing, soothing talking close to his ear so he can still hear me if he's crying, walking, showing him favourite things like his mobile, jiggling, rocking, bottom patting - and he settles very quickly. He usually only needs a little cuddling and patting but I try more if he still feels distressed. He had his first vaccinations the other night and he has been a bit traumatised by them so he's unsettled. His noises are like he's telling us about his experience and saying he doesn't know quite why he feels like he does. So we listen and tell him it's ok and just snuggle up with him and accept his changed sleep pattern. I just go with his flow but we still have a social life and get enough sleep. I wouldn't mind sleeping more hours in a row but I'm doing fine! My midwife says he's thriving and it's about how instinctive we are with him and just help him feel safe and loved. I don't have a formula but I have friends with happy babies who work in a similar way - what works for them not what an expert says. I just go with what my heart and body tell me he needs and I stay calm and just hold onto him no matter what. I am rewarded by seeing how happy and secure he is and those wonderful smiles that melt your heart. You know the ones I mean! I love co-sleeping and I believe that he responds to it very well. I couldn't bear the idea of taking him out of the womb where every need was catered for without even asking, to putting him in a cot and leaving him there all night. I just feel they are so very unsuited to being alone after their time in the womb. But I'm not trying to preach my set of ideas. I'm trying to say that what is loving and works in your family is what works for you. Still, I love Pinky's web site for gathering more ideas if I feel like I need them ;-)!
Best wishes,
Janet
| By Michelle Fulcher on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:59 am: |
I think its great that you have a wonderfully calm and relaxed baby Janet. I would have loved to have co-slept with my son, but right from the start he was a very unsettled and intense baby and the only way either me or my partner could get any sleep was to have him in the other room so that we could take turns dealing with his high-pitched scream. Even though attachment parenting works for a lot of babies, I think no matter what you do, you can't change their temprement. Because he was my first baby, I guess I thought that if I did the right things, he would be a wonderfully settled and happy baby. After all, thats what the 'self-soothers' and the 'attached parents' kept telling me. I have learned that you just have to accept your baby for who he is. I feel like I have tried everything, asked every person what they did with their baby, brought every sleep book I could afford to, baby hammock, sleep CD's you name it. I have never liked the idea of controlled crying and I keep being told that this is all I have to do. My husband too feels that this is a last resort, but he wants us to go to Tresillian and have them show us how to do it properly. I couldn't leave my baby to cry until he vomited, no way. But when I try to put him to sleep, he looks at me like he knows and he feels the agony of indescision I feel. I wish I had never listened to anyones advice at all. There was a point in his life at about 2-3 months old when he was sleeping so well at night, up to 5 1/2 hours even! But then the local nurse told me that he needs to be having regular naps and not going to sleep on the breast, so then I went through the rigmarole of controlled comforting. Yes he started napping better, but then his night time sleep became very unsettled. Then I found Dr Sears website who told me how cruel I was to be letting him cry and self settle. I was still obsessed with his napping though, so for the last 4 months I've been trying to get him to sleep on the breast again (which he won't) be brought a baby hammock and have been swinging him to sleep. We've been staying at home to keep to his 'routine' (which never worked anyway it seems) Finnally, this weekend I had my brothers wedding, so Taliver didn't get his usual naps and didn't get to bed until 9.30pm he was so tired that he slept all night only getting up twice to breastfeed. So, yesterday I decided not to stress about his naps. I threw his nap routine out the window, put him down when he was quite tired and let him sleep as long as we wanted (45 mins) Last night, again he only woke twice. I don't know if this will continue but I think the answer has been staring me in the face this whole time. I kept saying to people "I think he seems to sleep better when he doesn't nap so well" but I wasn't brave enough to try it as I kept reading that naps affect night time sleep. If this keeps up perhaps we won't have to go to tresillian and go through the controlled crying thing all over again. But my advice to any sleep deprived parents reading this- listen to your heart, your gut instincts and the little voice inside. If your baby is sleeping well at night,DON"T CHANGE A THING!!! and don't let anyone convince you that you aren't doing things exactly perfect for your baby. Even if they are a 'professional'.
| By Pinky on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 09:21 pm: |
Hear ! Hear! Michelle,
You are absolutely right- each baby IS an INDIVIDUAL and as his mother, you know your baby best. Some babies do appear to sleep better at night if they have longer naps (mine didnt!)but I also believe that like some of us, other babies dont need as much sleep in a 24 hour period and if we 'force' them to take naps during the day these "low sleep requirement" babies (for lack of a better description -I dont like labels) will logically sleep less at night.
It helps to follow your baby - learn to interpret his unique cues -and respond as it works best for you and your child.
Thanks for sharing your brilliant insight.
May you have (fairly) peaceful nights.
PS - have you read Parenting By Heart? Sounds like you may enjoy it.
Pinky
| By Desperate on Saturday, February 12, 2005 - 10:40 pm: |
I am at my wit's end. My baby is now 15 months old and he has been waking up a few times a night for pretty much all that time. I have breastfed him back to sleep his whole life. I have recently tried to give him a bottle instead but he just pushes it away, yells even louder and tugs at my shirt. I have now been told that I need to take medication which I can't have whilst breastfeeding but I am scared that I have left weaning for too long and that my son will never take to a new nighttime routine. Has anyone been in this situation before?
| By pinky on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 07:27 am: |
Dear desperate,
You must feel very alone in this control crying culture. Believe me, you are not the only person nursing a toddler to sleep.
Please see the thread of other mums asking about sleep in this situation and changing sleep cues -'gradually with love'- you will find it if you click on 'last week' or see the thread under sleep deprivation.
If you happen to live in Melbourne, I am doing a Terrific Toddler workshop on 6th March , at the last workshop we had a very interesting discussion on sleep.
Warm wishes,
Pinky
| By Amanda Lalor on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 10:57 am: |
Dear Michelle,
I really relate to your story. Instead of having the confidence to accept that even though my son who is now 18 weeks old isnt text book I was ignoring how happy he is and how well he is thriving. I kept wanting him to nap longer by day (he fed every two hours - nap for 30 - 40mins at most - which was difficult to keep up the breast feeding as it never seems enough) even though he was sleeping pretty well at night. I was so confused reading this book and that with conflicting information I didnt know which way was up. Allot of this information seems to make sense but I have realised that the book doesnt come with the baby and applying it to the right baby - now thats the tricky part. I was feeling guilty that I was Accidental Parenting and ultimately harming him - robbing him of learning the skills he needed. Then I had to say to myself - get back to the basics. Is he happy? Is he content? Is he thriving? Are his needs being met? This of course happened after one hellish week of my trying to extend his daytime naps by using the shh/pat, pick/put down methods. WE HATED IT! It simply wasnt for us. Thankfully I recognised this early on. However this short bout I am sure has fractured his trust. In time I will earn it back. We all love our children and sometimes I think we parents just try to hard! I have decided to relax and just enjoy him. Im trying to just go with the flow. I would love to keep in touch with other parents either online or face to face (in the Gold Coast area) who also feel the same way and would like to share support.
Wamrest Wishes
Amanda
| By pinky on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 12:53 am: |
Hi Amanda,
Well - said!!
what sensible advice-I too cringe when I hear the words "Accidental parenting" - it so implies that you are creating some sort of monstrous problems or being 'slack' - in factyou are probably watching your baby and staying attuned to his particular needs. There is a lot of Bull around about making babies sleep half their lives away - many babies who sleep quite well at night, sleep very little during the day -others sleep better at night if they have good sound day sleeps. It makes perfect sense that babies who sleep a long stretch at night will need plenty of feeds and their quota of cuddles during the day
If its not a problem , its not a problem -Surrender is such a big part of mothering- and this doesnt imply submission, but rather, acceptance of YOUR individual child - and enjoying where you are at right now instead of wishing your baby was "more" whatever you feel pressured to believe is an 'ideal'. There is no textbook baby and we can either spend all day trying to make our babies sleep or we can play with them or take them out and about and enjoy their company and respect their patterns - like all of us they are unique beings - lets just love them and enjoy!
Thanks for your common sense
Pinky
| By Amanda Lalor on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 08:40 pm: |
Dear Pinky,
Thank you!!!=o)
I am thrilled that I stumbled across your website. It’s a great source of information and most importantly support...
I have had an opportunity today to read through the discussion on Sleep Deprivation and plan to also purchase the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley along with your book Parenting by Heart. I can’t wait to read them.
I am feeling more positive and confident in trusting my intuition.
Has anyone started a discussion like a book review on parenting books? If not that could be helpful!
Looking forward to keeping in touch!
Amanda
| By rebeccab on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 02:29 pm: |
good for you Amanda. I have really enjoyed both books, so refreshing to find books that really speak to you without making you feel guilty. I have felt so empowered by the process. Post back on the forum when you have the books. Will be interested to see what you think. Everyone likes Pinky's books but I'd like to hear what you think of the NCSS
becc
| By Amanda Lalor on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 08:48 pm: |
Hi Becc!... Yes thank you. I guess I will always have my moments of self-doubt but I guess thats all apart of being an aware parent.
Im waiting for the books to arrive. The anticipation is killing me (lol). I will definitely post back to share my thoughts.
I also have The Aware Baby by Aletha Solter and The Continuum Concept by Jean Leidloff coming too.
Should keep me busy on top of keeping up with my now 19week old.
Amanda
| By Michelle Fulcher on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:06 pm: |
About the NCSS, I purchased it when my baby was only 8 weeks old, and he is now 8.5 months. I thought it was a great book, but never really comitted myself to a plan, I just kept trying one or two ideas here and there, looking for the "switch" which would make my baby sleep. I brought an "Amby" baby hammock and spent countless hours trawling the internet for the right "switch". Finnally, over christmas we moved house and my bub started waking up 8 times during the night - EVERY NIGHT. I had thought it was bad before!!! after about a month of this my husband had had enough and started threatening Tresillian (I say threatened only because the thought of controlled crying scared me so much) So, finnally after about 5 months of mucking around I made a plan and have stuck to it. We have had quite a few set-backs, moving him from the Amby (BIGGEST waste of money for our baby) to the cot, teething, learning to sit, learning to crawl, having really hot weather...you name it. But once I started REALLY sticking to the plan (personnally I kept a diary to keep track of how well I was sticking to the plan) I have seen a huge improvement. He has gone from waking 8 times a night (every hour) to 2-3 times a night (every 3-5 hours) in just 30 days. I have gone from having to rock/breastfeed/pleading with him to go to sleep, to having a cuddle and putting him down in the cot AWAKE and giving him a few pats until he settles. It has been a huge improvement. It now takes me less than 10 minutes to get him to nap while it used to take over an hour. So, I definately recommend NCSS, but you have to do it wholeheartedly and commitedly for it to work. I think that we are really working our way towards the day that he sleeps the whole night through- I'll keep you posted!
| By rebeccab on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 10:03 pm: |
Hi Michelle. Glad to see someone else is having some good results too. I agree that you really have to give it your all if you want to see consistent and quicker results. We are a bit in and out with it but now my husband is home again (after working away for 5 months) I am finding I am getting better at getting it all together rather than bits and pieces. You do see improvements though even with the half hearted approach, just slower. I have seen out of sight improvements in napping (even having decided to just do whatever it takes with day sleeps) and am finding the going to bed is smoother and less night wakings. We are yet to get to the morning with everyone sleeping wheere they started but I think that's more about the fact that we secretly like a little co-sleeping, but after 6 am thanks!! we are getting there but surrendering to feeling like you are on a road of improvement and doing the right thing by you and your baby feels so good, I am sure that gives me some sleep credit points!!
Stay in touch. I am really interested.
becc
| By Michelle Fulcher on Tuesday, March 1, 2005 - 01:53 pm: |
Hi Becc,
I liked what you said about being "empowered by the process" because that is exactly how I felt when I started seeing some success. I felt so proud of myself for not submitting to the pressure that everyone is putting on me to control cry, and getting results. Sometimes it gets frustrating though. He seemed to be on such a good roll last week, but this week he's gone back to waking 4-5 times a night. It is still very good, considering the old days of 8-10 wakeups but I can't help but feel a little deflated. I was thinking to myself today that what I need is another mum on the program who I can share the journey with- someone to remind me how far he's come on the hard days, and someone who I can encourage when my bub is having a good day, but maybe theirs isn't.
I went to a mother's group today (one run by the early childhood centre) and felt SO out of place. I hadn't been since I'd decided there was no way I could control cry and started solidly doing the plan. Anyway, all the other babies in the group seem to be sleeping well- but only because of controlled crying. I just smiled and nodded when they asked how TJ was sleeping.... So it is really good to be able to come here and find some support- Serendipity perhaps? If you'd like to keep in touch via email, mine is schellamo@yahoo.com.au I'd love it if you'd drop me a line and tell me how your plan is going!
| By Amanda Lalor on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 08:36 pm: |
Hi Guys, Im glad I logged in today.
Michelle – That’s great progress! Im especially in awe at you just being able to cuddle him and put him down to sleep (along with improving daytime naps). These are some of my many goals…
NCSS – I really liked what Elizabeth had to say on all fronts. Im so glad actually that I found Pinkys website and the information to give NCSS a read. Likewise I enjoyed Pinkys book too – I felt it catered more to the Mothers needs which I haven’t been considering (all my focus is on our son). Quite refreshing really.
I definitely agree also that I really need to be committed to tailoring the plan and sticking to it.
Life for us has been very hap-hazard - we moved states just 6 weeks after his birth in with my folks and have been unable to settle. So our son now 19 weeks really doesn’t know when he is expected to sleep, where to sleep and how to go about sleeping (only applies to daytime naps). I guess I should count myself lucky that he sleeps rather well at night usually only waking twice. I had read during pregnancy to keep nighttime feeds very dull to differentiate between day and night. It appears to have paid off. But where daytime naps are involved well there is more to this story of which I will share another time (but his maternal grandmother has some involvement hear (lol)).
The move has been very difficult. I particularly liked what one Mum wrote (re. NCSS) where she felt like she was raising her little one alone. Corporate Mum and husband obviously not available to her either emotionally or physically due to work hours and so on. My husbands transfer has placed many new pressures on him. Realising this I try not to burden him and to be honest he doesn’t really understand because he has become so disconnected to the whole process.
I am looking forward to starting the plan but feel that I cant until we have our own place. I often feel like Im running out of precious time – the longer we take to get our own place the more he settles into a ‘nothing’ routine which in turn will be more difficult to break.
As mentioned earlier I also started reading The Aware Baby and The Continuum Concept. Interesting philosophies and may hold some key for other mothers. Perhaps if you’re interested you could check them out on the internet and borrow through the library and we can chat about them. You can review the principals behind the author of The Aware Baby, Aletha Solter through http://www.awareparenting.com/australia.htm. For The Continuum Concept go to http://www.continuum-concept.org/.
Other books Im now looking at reading through our library are those listed by Elizabeth on page 67. Did either of you check these ones out also? I guess Im taking her advice on page 65 – ‘your best defense is knowledge’.
It can be a lonely road. I haven’t bothered with the Mothers groups because I figure it’s pointless unless they share your views. I would really value keeping in touch with you both also for support if that’s ok.
Look forward to hearing from you both and keep your spirits up!
Amanda
| By Kimberley on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 11:12 pm: |
I found that our new born daughter would settle into her cradle most nights, but then after waking for a feed would have difficulty settling back to be. I would then pop her into bed with us and she would sleep well. We would continue our feeds lying down which I found very comfortable as I was experiencing a lot of upper back pain from feeding. We continued this until about 3-4 months of age. I then tried controlled comforting (which wasn't too traumatic as she didn't cry, but would call out) and we both sleep more soundly. She is 6 months od and still wakes most nights. In warm weather, she will wake a few times for thirst. Otherwise, she may wake once and need reassurance with a soothing word or her dummy popped in (yes, we use a dummy which I have found very effective in settling her to sleep as the sucking reflex is very soothing). She sleeps 2-3 times during the day usually for an hour or less. I've read that you shouldn't let them sleep past 4pm, but have found that my daughter will sleep from 5-6pm and then go back to sleep around 8.30pm for the night. I have tried not to be too strict with her sleeping, but rather take my cues from her. I have found on occasion though, that I put her down thinking that she is tired, but she just wanted to be cuddled or walked around with me. I always remember when having settling difficulties, that SHE WILL EVENTUALLY SLEEP, in an hour or two from now she will be asleep, and tomorrow she will sleep.
| By Amanda Lalor on Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 09:36 am: |
Hi Kimberley, Is your daughter able to hold the dummy in herself? My son still cant and hes almost five months old. Its sometimes time consuming continually going in and popping it back in. I have also read not to encourage their longest sleep past 4pm. If I keep him up, he gets very cranky (understandably). I have found its just better to let him go back to sleep. When this happens he usually stays asleep then until he wakes late night for a nurse.
| By Kimberley on Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 10:25 am: |
Hi Amanda, my daughter can't quite hold the dummy in herself, sometimes she pulls it out and tries to put it back in upside down or with the handle in her mouth, which is very cute. Usually during the night if it comes out, I find that she will stay asleep as she sometimes spits it out as she drifts off. I think it might be that when she wakes she wants some comfort so the dummy or a feed provide this. I'm glad that you too let your son sleep after 4pm if he is tired. I figure they will sleep if they need to and Elsbeth (my daughter) will go back to sleep later.
| By Amanda Lalor on Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 08:11 pm: |
Hi Kimberley, Yes it is isnt, Jesse my son does the same thing. Likewise he spits it out when hes ready to drift off. He appears much more dependant on it in the day? At this stage I am relutant to give him the dummy when he wakes at night. I just feed him. I guess I feel that perhaps he wouldnt have woken unless hungry but I realise this isnt always the case. Especially as hes capable of longer lenghts/periods of sleep. The other trouble I have is by the time I rouse and determine if hes actually awake and not just moving around and making noises in his sleep hes quite awake and wont take the dummy. Hes quite spirited and fights to keep hold of my hand. He also appears to gag (or from what I can tell in the dark) even when he opens his mouth ready for it? Strange!
Just wondering if you know of anyone who gave their child a dummy and how easy or not it was to remove and at what age?
| By Kimberley on Thursday, March 3, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |
Hi Amanda, Elsbeth is also more dependant on the dummy during the day. Sometimes I also wonder if she wakes at night frequently out of hunger, I think it's actually thirst sometimes, which is understandable as I drink water regularly at night, especially if it's been a hot day.
I guess it's human nature for Jesse to want you to stay with him. Sometimes if Elsbeth is like that, once I have fed her or popped the dummy in or pulled the blanket back over her I use controlled comforting and say 'nigh nighs' and walk out or hop into bed (depending on if it's day or night as her cot is in our room). Other times if she isn't settling during the night, I pop her into bed with us. I usually don't need to do this, but more recently I have found it helpful to pop her in with use after an early morning feed (around 5.30) and she will sleep for another 2-3 hours. But then again, at other times she sleeps better, as do I, if she goes back in her cot.
I guess there are no hard and fast rules, but just doing what comes naturally and not feeling guilty about whether it's the right thing or not, as the message they receive is that we're tending to them and developing their sense of security which will later allow them to be independent and know that their needs are important.
Re the gagging on the dummy, could it be possibly that Jesse is expecting a feed and the dummy is more rigid and bulky. I use a dummy that has a flat teat, so it is similar to the real thing. It's made by Nuk and I got a pack of two at Target.
Most stories I have heard about getting rid of dummies are that it can be quite difficult, although you tend to hear the more interesting stories anyway. I have been told by our early childhood nurse to get rid of them by 6 months, which might be to do with the clingy stage from 7-10 months, yet I have been told by the nurse at our local chemist, who is pretty mature and has a lot of first hand knowledge, that there is nothing wrong with the dummy for the bedroom or sleeping only and she had kept her children's dummies in the kitchen drawer and used them to signify sleep time, finding it quite useful. And apparently they just grow out of needing them and may use something else like reading before bed or having a favourite toy with them. I'm not sure what will happen with Elsbeth and getting rid of the dummy, but I'm not too worried as it helps keep her happy at present. Another reason we used a dummy was that my husband had sucked his thumb for several years, until about the age of 12, and needed a plate put in his mouth with spikes on it (which he used for holding Redskins in class). I figure a dummy isn't a permanent fixture and can eventually be lost! hope our experiences are helpful, I try to trust my instincts and figure I can't get it too wrong if I mean well. Kimberley
| By Amanda Lalor on Friday, March 4, 2005 - 08:23 pm: |
Hi Kimberley, Elsbeth and Jesse behave very similarly. Have you tried facing Elsbeth away from you when she comes into bed with you? This works well for Jesse. This morning he woke and I could hear him but chose to keep sleeping so he went back to sleep. My husband said that he was slapping his pillow trying to get back to sleep on his own (funny little guy kind of burrows).
Regarding the dummy – we use a flat dummy also and I don’t think he thinks its my breast (although I cant read his mind (lol)). Now that’s he older he has progressed to the suitable one for his age –still flat but has a bit of a bulb on it and is longer. I don’t know why he does it. Actually now I think of it he has done it also during the day.
My brother also sucked him thumb to the extent of damaging his thumb and teeth (needed braces). Its now at the stage that if I don’t give it to him he will suck his thumb. Ive even seen him sucking it through his mits (which we use when his nails havent been cut to stop him for scratching himself). Hes not silly (lol).
I just keep reassuring myself that he wont need it forever. My husband says that once he realises hes a big boy he wont want it anymore. As you say we confine its use to only sleep times. If hes in the car he doesn’t need it, in the sling he doesn’t need it and sometimes even in the stroller he doesn’t need it. So I figure hes learning that he isnt totally dependant on it.
Yes thanks for that. Amanda
| By Amanda Lalor on Friday, March 4, 2005 - 08:44 pm: |
Hi Michelle, I keep meaning to you what steps you took to get your baby to go down awake?
Thanks Amanda
| By Michelle Fulcher on Sunday, March 6, 2005 - 09:36 am: |
Amanda - about a thousand hehehe *J*
Seriously though, a few weeks ago we tried to just put him in the cot and pat him, shh him and he got very distressed. But now he wiggles off me when I'm cuddling him before bed because he WANTS to go down in the cot. It was a very gradual process. First I would hold him still until he fell asleep and then placed him in the cot asleep, giving him a few pats if he stirred. It took a bit of crying but he never got distressed because he was in my arms so he always felt nice and secure. Then once he got the hang of that and went to sleep within about 5 minutes or so of holding, I started putting him in the cot once his eyes were closed and he was relaxed and again gave him a few pats once he was in. Then I started putting him in once he had stopped crying, and patted him to sleep. Now I just do our usual routine and put him in the cot awake and pat him to sleep. Sometimes I have to pick him up and settle him down again because he likes to do "laps" crawling and rolling all over the cot if he is too awake. The other important thing in getting him down awake was his routine, exactly the same steps in the same order at the same time each day. That way not only does he know what is coming, but his body clock is priming him for sleep also.
Last night was hopeless though, he just would not settle down, I even tried putting him down fully asleep (or so I thought!) and straight away he was crawling around, rolling around. Argh! Oh well, back to his routine today and hopefully he will improve. In regards to the dummy thing- I haven't used one but friends of ours told their daughter that she had to give her dummies to santa on xmas night so that he could take them to the newborn babies and because of the excitement and the lead up (she knew that it was coming) they had no problem at all removing the dummy. Hope it helps : )
| By Amanda Lalor on Sunday, March 6, 2005 - 08:36 pm: |
Hi Michelle,
Gosh I love that idea about giving up their dummies to Santa for the newborn babies. That’s a lovely concept. Thanks I will try that.
I’ve sort have been doing the same thing but this only applies to going to bed for the night. This doesnt work during the day at all! Similarly I had been putting him into his cot partially awake and hes been going off to sleep on his own. On a few occasions in the beginning I may have had to settle him either by holding or something. Now when he appears to have trouble settling I can just put my hand on his shoulder and he settles, other times patting but a last resort I use the dummy (it works every time). Now that hes older he can actually manipulate the dummy into position. Although if we wakes during the night he is rarely given a dummy again to go back to sleep. He nurses usually twice a night. Although recently he seems to be waking an extra time or at worse two. Not sure why? All I can put it down to is that in the day he has been napping longer. What I find works best is when I see that hes tired we go and lay down on the bed together - he can unwind - then he starts to rub at his eyes so I give him the dummy (which is our sleep cue). He snuggles up against my chest so that he can block out things and starts to go off. When hes serious about sleeping his spits out his dummy and gets comfortable. Where previously he would only ever sleep for 30mins even if I intervened with the dummy or patting - now he will continue to sleep. Depending on how much he needs I can get him to sleep for three hours.
Im thinking that because hes getting more sleep during the day and missing out on those feeds hes waking at night? Im hoping that now Ive introduced the solids that this will settle down. Fingers crossed.
As you say about your sons body clock priming him for sleep. In the early days I used to neither nurse him or use the dummy to get him to sleep. He would cry but he would usually settle and drop off to sleep. What I noticed was that if we were late to get him off to bed he would just fall asleep. I remember laying him on the bed to change him, I turned around and he was off with the pixies. I thought what do I do?..wake him? lol. Nice problem to have I know. We've regressed re the dummy but I feel but its ok, the main thing is hes sleeping and we're happy. Thanks because it helps to hear what other mums are doing…and that their also having success.
| By Kimberley on Monday, March 7, 2005 - 04:37 pm: |
Hi Amanda
thanks for the advice re facing bub away from me when sleeping. I've noticed she's been waking a bit more during the night lately also, I thought it may have something to do with the weather being a bit colder than usual at night. Kimberley
| By Amanda Lalor on Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
Hi Kimberley, It’s definitely a guessing game and try and see isn’t it. I don’t know what’s happened to Jesse because it’s almost like he’s regressed to only a few months old. He’s waking now around 9.30 even after I top him up at 7/7.30 (even 8 the other night) then around 12/1.30 (may 2 if I’m lucky) again around 4 and two hourly after that. I thought it may have been developmental. Does anyone have any information on signs that he’s reaching a developmental milestone? I have noticed lately that he doesn’t cry much anymore. He more complains if that makes sense. Amanda
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, March 15, 2005 - 12:14 am: |
Hi Amanda
I have heard of babies sleeping patterns changing as they become more aware of their environment, may be that's part of it. It's exciting that Jesse's making different sounds like complaining, it's like he's trying to tell you what he wants, clever little chap.
cheers
Kimberley
| By Amanda Lalor on Friday, April 1, 2005 - 07:08 pm: |
Hi Gals, Just wondering how everyone is going regarding their routines to date. Gosh I’m desperate to get moved (next weekend is the Big day). As you say Kimberley as Jesse is getting bigger he’s becoming more aware and not responding as he once did to different situations. I think too I have gone off course a bit and relaxed and I think that hasn’t helped reinforce our old routine. Its strange because on the weekend we were out and about looking at property’s, when he was due a feed we would stop and he would take a little and then get distracted and not want anymore regardless of my efforts. He went nearly six hours which I found quite alarming and not good for my milk supply. As for today back two hourly feeds and well there of course wasn’t as much as usual which brought tears. Actually he also seems to be crying allot of late. When I say that I mean when he’s not being carried in the sling. He doesn’t like laying down to be changed, sitting in his chair or laying on the floor to play (unless I’m there - not even two feet away folding washing or something) and the tears start or screaming. I’m finding him a bit difficult to read and handle lately. I’m not sure what is going on. He seems to be really testing me. Has anyone been experiencing these behaviours? Michelle I know your little one is very active. Perhaps you can shed some light on this. He’s very loving when he wants to be but he is also very assertive and challenging the rest of the time. I have to constantly be moving in the sling/carrier it seems for him to be happy...? Which of course is very tiring. My chiro told me I’m in bad shape and also advised I discontinue my running. I was very shocked and disappointed. So this uncomfortable carrier is going out and I’m looking at some others with lumbar support. The hugabub is great but its still too hot and we both cook! I think too when we move I’m going to do the sidecare cot/bed thing. I’m just finding that we don’t sleep well together unless I’m very tired and sleep heavily. I don’t know why he’s waking more frequently at night these days seeing as though he was on the road to sleeping through unassisted – especially now I feel my milk supply has been reestablished. I’m at a loss really.
I guess I’m eagerly awaiting for this phase to pass (or at least I’m hoping it will). I mean do they eventually get this independence they talk about from being carried? Gosh I don’t know I’m very flat tonight (actually have been for some time). Well gals I’m looking for some reinforcement and general advice ‘cause I’m flat out of answers!
Amanda
Oh yes it looks like he had the beginnings (light patchy ginger spots on his head) of cradle cap. Today I followed some advice I had read about rubbing oil into his head to allow it to lift off. It’s pretty well gone now but was wondering what causes it. I had read to eliminate dairy, citrus fruits and water based purees until it’s fixed. As he isn’t having dairy or citrus fruits directly I’m assuming they mean me eliminate them from my diet. As for the water based purees once my milk supply is back up and running from the set back on the weekend I guess I can add this to it as I’m preparing it although that doesn’t help me when I actually cook it and it requires water. Any suggestions?
| By Michelle Fulcher on Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 12:46 pm: |
Hi Amanda *Big Hugz*
Taliver also went through a similar phase at about 5-6 months old, which also happened just after we moved, and then it took another couple of months for things to settle down after that- At christmas he finnally learned to roll, by january he could sit, then february he crawled and march he learned to stand, and last weekend he popped his first tooth. So it has been a very busy few months for us and it is only now that we are finnally starting to see some sleep improvements (last night he only woke twice!).
When Taliver was very little I used the sling alot, but like you I wasn't allowed to sit down, so I ended up giving it up save for the odd occasion when I felt like it. The thing you have to remember about attachment parenting is that it is only good for the baby it is good for you. (Even Dr Sears says babies should only sleep with its parents if both are happy about it). So, if it is wearing you thin, I'd give yourself a break with the sling. Is there anyone you can call on to help you out with him? Even just to keep him occupied while you rest or get things done?
I remember asking practically everyone I met what they did with their babies, and no one had any advice for me that worked. I have finnally realised that there is nothing I can do to change his personality (he throws temper tantrums at 10 months!) and I can't always prevent his tears/screams. All I can do is be there for him when he cries and do the best job I can. Thats all any of us can do. It DOES get easier though. I find it so much easier to deal with him now, he screams a lot less and is a lot more independant. He is happy to play on his own now.
I think he is probably on the cusp of acheiving a milestone, whether it be sitting or rolling or crawling, and he is probably very frustrated when you put him on the floor to play, as he can't controll his body as well as he would like to. If he can't sit yet- a great idea my physio told me was to get a cardboard box and stick a pillow in a corner, and put Jesse in it sitting up so that he can play with his toys and get used to the way his weight is beared without always falling over. He also may be teething which could cause his night waking.... It could be a plethorer of things. If things were going well and you were in a good routine, it's probably something physical which is causing him to wake at night. Just know that sticking with your routine, even though it doesn't seem to work, it helps in the long run (though don't beat yourself up if you are too tired to) through TJ's sickness and teething I kept up with the routine even though it wasn't working (It was the only way I knew how to get him to sleep) and he was waking every 45 mins. Now that it's over it only took about 3 days for him to settle back into a really good sleep pattern.
I wish I had a miracle cure that would just fix everything for you (the one I've been looking for the last 10 months!)...but I'm afraid you'll probably just have to tough it out. It WILL pass, things do get better and you will enjoy him so much more. Re: Attachment parenting, you do not have to do all the recommended things to be an attached parent (slinging, co-sleeping... I rarely do either), just attend to his cries as best you can. Its more about the connection you have with your baby by 'putting yourself in their booties'.
Re- cradle cap, TJ has never had it but my mother recommends rubbing oil into it. Just make sure it is not a "baby oil" (read: Johnsons) product as they are actually made from petroleum by-products!!! My mum used johnsons baby oil on my brothers cradle cap and it BURNT HIS SCALP! Instead use any nice carrier oil, almond or apricot kernel...even olive oil from the cupboard would be better than baby oil.
Good luck with everything Amanda, I hope some of what I've said helps. It will pass eventually...you just have to try to stay sane in the meantime *L*
| By Kimberley on Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 07:42 pm: |
Hi Amanda
hang in there, I'm sure you're doing the best you can. I have found that it's a pretty tricky stage at the moment as Elsbeth won't let me out of her sight lately too. It's been difficult to get anything done around the house, yesterday I hung a load of washing one handed while holding her in the other. She always seems to want me nearby and cries if I'm gone for more than a few seconds. I did manage to leave her for a few minutes the other day as she was really rapt in something. I have found that Elsbeth too is very active and needs something she finds interesting to do all the time (I'm much the same, even if it's something very simple). She's also pretty assertive, which is a challenge, although I wouldn't have her any other way (I may eat my words when she's a teenager lol).
For carrying Elsbeth, I've been using the Baby Bjorn harness - it is uncomfortable as she's pretty heavy, but it does have lumbar support. I wear her on the front (facing in or out), but I think it would be more comfortable with her on my back, but can't put her in on my own.
I'm not sure when this phase will pass, but like Michelle said it may improve as they become more mobile.
I'm not sure what causes cradle cap, but Elsbeth had it a little and I was eating a lot of dairy early on. I found sorbolene cream helped.
take care
Kimberley
| By pinky on Saturday, April 2, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
Hi Amanda - hang in there, as suggested by the girls, this clinginess is probably due to a new developmental stage and your current upheaval.
If you have a look in 100 Ways to Calm the Crying, you will find a little section on stages of neurological development as labelled by a couple of Dutch paediatricians -I find this really interesting and often absolutely spot on- one stage at about 26 weeks is that babies begin to perceive distance between objects- like, my mummy is getting away from me. This can be confusing so babies cling to the best security they know - you! Moving house/ changes / becoming mobile/ teeth - any or all of thees in combination can create a bit of a reaction and separation anxiety is in itself a normal, healthy developmental stage - means baby is securely attached and loves you above all others!
Isnt it great that Michelle is a few months ahead so can offer reassurance that 'this too will pass'.Thanks Michelle.
Also, I believe that babies are like little barometers of our own feelings- if we are distracted/ busy/ stressed - that will be the time they need extra cuddles and security (like us!).
Dont wear yourself out with the carrying if it is uncomfortable for you - I was just discussing the attachment thing and guilt last night -I was out giving a talk on sleep. A mum mentioned how guilty she felt not carrying her baby all the time when she read the continuum concept ( www.contimuumconcept.com) - I reminded her that the author was a childless woman - it is so often, people who dont have 24 hour care of babies who are the strongest advocates of around the clock attachment. I like Michelle's interpretation that it is about the 'connection' you have with your baby rather than a whole raft of techniques - of course babywearing and cosleeping can aid connection but we do need to be real about how much we can manage without beating up on ourselves for not doing 'more".
Your chiro's news must have been upsetting - ?? a second opinion -I had a chiro scare the pants off me a few years ago-if I had believed him I should have been dead or at least severely crippled by now . Shortly after, he was suspended for over treating -(I do take my child to a fabulous paediatric chiro so this isnt a tirade against chiros in general). If your back is suffering it might be worth looking at strollers that perhaps face you as you walk so you can alternate carrying with riding and still interact with your baby -if baby and you are happy with that.
I did see a great carrier last night- will try and track it down - easy to put on your back by yourself and fabulous support for mum and baby - looked really good for bigger babies and not as enclosed as a hugabub.
Re putting carriers on by yourself Kimberly- Im not sure re baby Bjorn but can you sit your baby in the carrier in an armchair and slide yourself backwards (sitting in front of bub) / slip your arms into the straps this way? I used to do this with back packs.
Re the sitting - the box idea sounds good but bubs still need lots of encouragement to be on their tummies. If babies get lots of tummy time play they usually crawl first then they can sit themselves up and slide down at will - no falls at all.
You might like to check out the play ideas posting Amanda and Kimberly - the box of things to rummage in can be a great diversion even tho it requires supervision.
Re cradle cap- good point about oils Michelle - read lables -if you cant promounce ingredients/ cant eat it (ie petroleum based products)dont put it on baby. A good circular massage with a natural oil will stimulate circulation to the scalp and should help. If you do it at night, you can leave the oil on and wash bubs hair in the morning -usually any crusty bits simply wash off.
Must head to bed -I m teaching massage tomorrow am -I love these Sunday classes as I get the dads too.
Pinky
| By Amanda Lalor on Sunday, April 3, 2005 - 02:33 pm: |
Hi Gals,
Thank you all soo much for you support! EXACTLY what I needed and need actually…
Big hugs to all of you. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could actually meet for a drink somewhere…to share our experiences in person.
It is great Michelle that you and Taliver are a few months ahead of Jesse and I and I can be assured these stages are healthy, normal and will pass. A huge sigh of releif after reading your response. Thank you!
I definitely see how when I’m relaxed and happy Jesse reflects this. So I’m trying not to form too many judgements on the carrying and co-sleeping just yet. I am looking forward to us settling in. I try to remember that they are just tools and don’t reflect how attached we are. On slinging – this is something I wanted to do from the beginning so I guess I feel like I’m trying to make up for lost time. Unfortunately I allowed negative opinions to influence me and didn’t persist until now I’m more confident with our choices but alas he’s so much heavy lol. So if it weren’t for my back I really wouldn’t have an issue with carrying him. I actually find the carriers a great help during this stage because I couldn’t possibly carry him in my arms all day and what I’ve found – if you recall my earlier post where we thought he was teething – well I put down some of it to him being overly frustrated by family members standing him etc – so I figure put him in the sling which takes him out of the spot light and eases the learning frustrations. It worked but my back/neck aren’t great. The hugabub is extremely comfortable but just too hot. We cook! I got a baby bjorn on the weekend and its far superior than the Theodore Bean I have but the shoulder straps aren’t padded like the TB so they dig. I actually find the TB better in this respect. So Im now looking at the slings I saw at the CarryingAway workshop – which by the way was wonderful. ALLLLLL of the various carriers to try on and learn about. I am also looking at the Baby Bjorn with the lumbar support and the Snuggli with the three position holds. Pinky if you have a better carrier for me to consider I would really love to learn about it. I really need to find the right carrier.
On the tantrums at 10mths Michelle – I realised a while ago to expect this with Jesse. He is strong willed (like myself) so I kind of understand what he’s thinking which helps. I’m sure Ill be crying on your shoulder for many months to come and I appreciate learning from you and Taliver. Its just with everything else that goes on, really just our current situation, I wish it were easier!
You know another great tip I got from Dr Sears – The Baby Book – was bolsters or wedges. Because baby cant use their hands when on their tummy they get annoyed because they want to play but also want to be on their tummy – so if you place a bolster under them they can roll forward and backward using their feet and their hands if needed to reach toys etc, with the wedge its similar just stationary. I plan to get something like this for Jesse when we settle.
On Cradle Cap – yes we’re very natural around here and its amazing how many people dont realise that allot of the creams and ointments out there are a bi-product of petroleum. I pretty much did what you’ve all suggested, got a good oil – massaged it into his scalp and the stuff lifted right up. Ill just have to be more watchful of it.
Kimberley on the Baby Bjorn with lumbar support – can you actually wear the lumbar one on your back? I guess as Pinky suggested just ease yourself into it with her supported in a chair. What do you think of it?
Ill look into 100 Ways to Calm the Crying. Yes I read the Continuum Concept also – heavy reading arhh! Guilt guilt and more guilt. As you say though another book by a childless person on around the clock attachment. When I was going through my bout of tweaking – my husband would constantly tell me Jesses wonderful and a testament to our existing routine so don’t worry about it. But MS PERFECTION needed to find this out for herself lol.
Yes I was very shocked when my chiro informed me. My brother took my xrays to work to ask one of the orthopaedic surgeons for a quick word – he said the degradation wasn’t as bad as the red lines make it appear drawn by my chiro – but would need to talk with me to thoroughly ascertain my lifestyle as to causes for the problem. I’m now taking Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM powder which is a joint/cartilage food by Designer Physique which if any of you are interested contains no sugar of fillers. I’m expecting this to help and I will request an xray again in 6 to 12 mths to see if things have improved. Gosh Pinky what a dud of a Chiro hey! Isnt it crazy…
Actually we do have a stroller that does both faces in out. He only faces in at the moment (he prefers to see us). Jesse does actually (now) like riding in his stroller. We have it so the hood is folded up in the middle (so above his head so he can see our from under it as it doesn’t fold down enough when around his head). He loves looking around taking it all in. I guess the dreadful thing about this stroller is that it weighs 15kgs…my back just doesn’t get a break! So the right carrier would be perfect!
You know as Im sitting here, I think I am doing exactly what you guys are suggesting – feeling guilty if I don’t do certain things for Jesse – co-sleep or wear him. Before I started tweaking things he was more settled. But you know I can see myself beating myself up for that now. It’s like a constant game of which guilt will I wear this week. Isn’t guilt subtle – you don’t think its there until you probe further. Gosh how does one combat this?
Tummy Time – we USED to do this allot but will definitely make it part of our routine again once we’ve moved and I can leave his playmate on the floor!!!!!! (Relos don’t you love em!) Ill also check out the Play Ideas posting thanks! Jesse does appear bored with his current toys. Wants everything I have…which is ok under supervision of course.
Well I better go and see where Jesse and his Dad are...sounds awfully quiet so I bet they are both asleep on the bed lucky for them.
I really cant express enough how much I really appreciate all of your support and words of wisdom.
Take care everyone and I will check back in soon!
Amanda
| By Kimberley on Sunday, April 3, 2005 - 10:47 pm: |
Hi Amanda
it would be wonderful to catch up for a coffee and a chat with everyone in person, if you guys are in Sydney some time let me know. Yes, the baby Bjorn can be worn on the back and it is more comfortable this way as you're leaning forward using your abdominals not backward, so I'll be trying Pinky's suggestion of putting it on with Elsbeth sitting in it in a chair (thanks Pinky). My 5 year old nephew thinks Elsbeth looks hilarious like this and calls her a 'squashed bug'. That's what she looks like facing in, tho I'm pretty sure she could face outward and will try also (but may need help getting her on for this way - could be tricky). I wonder if you could go to a baby shop and try one on with Jesse in it. Good luck with it.
Guess what - Desperate Housewives is back on tomorrow night (can't wait - keeps me sane!).
I don't know if you guys receive the show Super Nanny, but I watched it for the first time last week and it was a worry. It has a traditional English nanny sorting out American kids with all the sergeant major rubbish, sad really. It's not such a bad thing if you don't get it but it's a shame it's on our teles teaching Aussie mums to be meanies.
Anyway, bye for now
Kimberley
| By pinky on Sunday, April 3, 2005 - 11:33 pm: |
Yep- I saw Supernanny - shes a tough bird isnt she? But I guess they need the drama to make great TV -I had actually suggested something similar to a producer a while ago- a gentle version but he dismissed it as not having enough audience interest - why does everyone put parenting stuff down unless its dramatic and instant quick fix. I cant imagine sitting my kids on naughty mats: it seems really shaming to me -I reckon my kids would have run off them anyway but on the segment I saw, the parents seemed very confused and lacking support which I guess is what the nanny offered - ie a plan and physical presence to support the parents to be consistent - I was also talking to a good friend of mine when we were staying together at the beach over Easter saying, wouldnt it be great to have mothering life coaches - ie somebody to keep us on track when things get sticky - she has a young teen who is busting the boundaries in ways her older kids didnt and even at that age, its hard to confide/ ask advice/ support without being judged/ blamed (really he is just one smart kid who is pushing hard but it takes strength not to be worn down). Im sure every mum has spells when it would be great to have a support person who could help us see the wood from the trees - ie a detached 'expert' but not as sergent majorish as supernanny.
I agree, there will be lots of parents influenced by the 'mean' approach- just because its on the tele, they will believe it must be good.
Looking forward to Desperate Housewives. Laughter is essential!
Pinky
| By Michelle Fulcher on Monday, April 4, 2005 - 11:31 am: |
I totally agree Pinky! I really could've used a mothering mentor when Taliver was newborn...All I had was the community midwives who basically told me I was doing everything wrong and totally undermined my mothering instinct and my confidence.
When we moved and Taliver was waking CONSTANTLY (so it seemed) my hubby kept saying "We need help," and I kept telling him that the only help the community services would give was telling us to CIO. He wasn't convinced though...So, he organised for someone from the Family Care Cottage (aka 'sleep trainers 'r' us) and of course, the only information she had to offer was that which she was trained to offer - controlled crying. Of course, I was upset that this woman was in my house telling me to 'let my child cry for as long as it takes, even if he vomits, even if its been two hours'. So then she asked me why I was upset (in a tone suggestive of post natal depression that could be 'fixed' in a similar way) and I basically said 'no, it just upsets me to even think about doing that to him.' and then she basically said 'well, theres nothing more that I can do for you if your going to be stubborn.' (this was a woman who was recommended to my husband because she was really 'nice')
Suffice to say I didn't budge and my husband just had to wait this period out with me (Taliver's gone from waking 8 times every night, maximum 2 hours at a time to waking 2-3 times a night maximum 4 hours at a time) and now I think he is happy that he did. I felt bad that I had to pretty much 'overrule' his opinion but I'm glad I did.
What I really could've used at that point was some practical help so my husband and I could've caught up on sleep!! But at the same time, looking back I'm glad we went through it, I think it has strengthened our relationship and our parenting skills (if we could be patient and loving with a screaming TJ on 2 hours sleep, we can do anything!).
I guess part of the reason that I post on here and offer stories about my experiences is because that is what I needed when Taliver was younger. (Plus it is always good to return what you are given, some of the advice I have received on here has been absolutely priceless!)
Re: Supernanny
I have enjoyed watching it with my husband, mostly to check out the kids behavior's and to discuss our parenting strategies for when that DOES come up. I think it is good to be prepared and although I don't agree with alot of Supernannies ideas, it has been good just to open up the discussion about it with my husband so that we'll be on the same wavelength when Taliver gets to that stage.
Hugs to you all
Michelle
| By Amanda Lalor on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
Hi Gals,
Michelle, my husband and I enjoy watching suppernanny too! For very similar reasons actually, although I sure Im thinking about strategies more than he is.
Kimberley, I tried the BB on my back and I got bionic boobs lol. Didn’t work for me. Actually I’ve been doing some reading and have found some great websites on types of slings. Suffice to say I’m learning quite allot about the different ones, when/why they’re suitable, and so on. There is one in particular that has instructions on how to make it yourself and I’m going to try it. Ill let you know how it works out (ill post it in the Frequent Use of a Baby Sling section). I’m also looking at buying two from another two sites. And actually if you’re interested there is one in AU which is designed as a front and back carrier listed on cleverpants.com called the Baby Trekker. They offer a rental scheme they are that confident. Once I’ve tried these slings out, I may look at this for when Jesse is much bigger (dare I say being more active).
Also I wanted to say how much I really appreciate having you all here to learn from and share experiences with. In fact you are the ONLY people I share this with... So you all have a special place near to my heart. Thank you!
Ill be thinking of you... Amanda
| By Kimberley on Wednesday, April 6, 2005 - 09:00 pm: |
Hi everyone
I thought Supernanny actually did a good job in showing the dad to be encouraging re homework and getting his son to express his feelings. Amanda, yep the BB does cause a bit of a squeeze on the boobs when on the back, so maybe not the best option for back wearing. Good luck with finding the right carrier and I'd be keen to know what you find out.
cheers Kimberley
| By Kimberley on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 01:12 am: |
Hi Gals
I hope you're all going well. We're going well at this end with the usual bumps along the way. I finally got around to writing my letter about the advice provided by government agencies to use CC. I've posted it here in case anyone else wants to send something similar to their local councillor or health department.
I am writing to express my concern regarding the advice provided to me by Ermington Early Childhood Centre in methods to manage and interact with my baby. My primary concern is in relation to the advised method to settle my baby to sleep. In the ‘Parent Group Handout’ Manual compiled by the Castle Hill and Baulkham Hills Early Childhood Centres and the Hills and Community Health Centre in 2003, it is advised to encourage an infant from birth to 4 months of age to learn to fall sleep on their own. If the baby cannot stop crying, it is advised to pick them up briefly then return them to the cot awake. This method is advised for 45 minutes to one hour or whatever length of time ‘I’ am comfortable with (see page 2). If baby does not settle, it is advised to take them for a walk, give a massage or a bath with no advice to breastfeed, cuddle or rock baby to sleep (this is apparently discouraged). It is also advised on page 3 to not pick up a 4-7 month old or 7 month or older baby if they cry when settling as they will be confused as to what you want them to do. It goes on to advise to stay in the room with the unsettled baby for less than 30 seconds. It is advised on page 1 to feed baby after a sleep, rather than before a sleep so as to discourage them associating feeding with falling asleep as if they wake, they may expect a feed.
The rationale appears to be to teach very young babies to fall asleep on their own so if they should wake up after 40 minutes (which incidentally is the standard sleep cycle for a baby) they will not want/need their mother and will fall back to sleep unaided. I have found my 7½ moth old daughter’s sleep pattern to consist of 3 day-time sleeps of 40-60 minutes each and 12 hours of sleep during the night with 2-3 breast feeds during this time for hunger, thirst or comfort.
I find it absolutely appalling that government policy advises new mothers in NSW to train their babies to fall asleep on their own so as to ensure they learn to fall back to sleep without assistance. Research has shown (see enclosed) that babies who wake easily from sleep have a lower risk of SIDS. I feel it is unrealistic to expect a baby to sleep for hours on end during the day and that this may in fact cause them to sleep poorly at night time. Also, to expect a baby to ‘sleep through’ the night seems unrealistic to me as I myself wake several times a night due to thirst or for a visit to the bathroom. I don’t find this inconvenient, but consider it normal behaviour.
I personally feel it is a joy to breastfeed my baby to sleep and find it the most effective means to settle her and I rarely have a crying baby on my hands. This also relaxes me due to hormones released and often settles me to sleep too (very clever of mother nature don’t you think). I have a very strong connection with my baby and find that she is vocalising her needs and thoughts about her environment to me all the time, rather than staying silent like a trained seal, so as not to bother me. She actually started saying ‘mumma’ with intent at 7 months of age even though the Parent Group Manual advises this should happen at 12 months of age.
I think western society encourages women to deny the innate needs of their babies in order to allow us to return to the workforce more readily, leaving our perfectly trained baby to fall asleep with another carer with little effort and guilt.
Most disturbingly of the advice provided in the manual is the results of research (see enclosed) which shows that babies who are left to cry, without their needs being met promptly, develop imbalances in the level of cortisol (stress hormone) released in the brain which can lead to anxiety and depression among other things, in adult life. Most certainly, if I was made aware of this in my parenting group meetings, manual or visits to the Early Childhood Centre, I would not follow the recommendations to allow my baby to cry or learn not to cry in order to fall asleep.
I feel very strongly that the advice advocated by the NSW Department of Health is detrimental to the emotional development of babies, specifically in regard to learning to manage stress levels in the brain based on being rescued or not from their distress by their primary caregiver.
It is absolutely imperative that mothers in western society are taught to mother in the method for which we and our babies are innately designed and that this should be encouraged by early childhood workers rather than frowned upon. I have certainly found the advice to be ill-informed with no true benefit apart from convenience for the primary caregiver; but with actual serious, negative effects on the infant as well as causing feelings of confusion, guilt and detachment in the mother. I believe that the latter can contribute to increased rates of post-natal depression in mothers.
Personally, I have found each visit to the Early Childhood Clinic to be detrimental to my confidence as a new mother, as the interactions seem to be problem-based rather than positive and truly supportive of my efforts. My daughter is thriving physically, emotionally and cognitively, although I am not reminded of this nor asked what I think is best practice for my baby. Only yesterday, when I braved the clinic again, after choosing to take my daughter to the local chemist for her monthly screenings, I felt discouraged for having a strong emotional bond with my daughter. When picking her up after crying on 2 occasions, once after having a rubber glove poked in her mouth and again after being placed back into her stroller when wanting to stay close to her mum; the early childhood worker stated:
‘isn’t she a mummy’s girl’ and ‘doesn’t she have you wrapped around her little finger’. I found these comments to be sarcastic and undermining of my caring and responsive parenting style. What a shame that I can’t go to such a place and be encouraged for providing my daughter with prompt and appropriate attention. I was also advised when my daughter was a few months old that I should not be attending the clinic on a fortnightly basis for screening alone, but could bring her in if there was a problem. As a first time mum, I looked forward to having my daughter’s growth measured every 2 weeks and viewed her gains as confirmation that I was doing a good job. I was even questioned as to why I was topping up my daughter’s breast feeds with formula, ‘is it because you’re just too busy’; but would have really benefited from encouragement that I was providing her enough nourishment with breast feeds and could bring her in regularly for weight checks if I needed reassurance. Again, I have found reassurance of my breast feeding efforts elsewhere and now breast feed and provide solids with no formula in sight.
It’s time for government policy to catch up with the needs and wishes of modern day mothers and start supporting and teaching us in being good mothers who will raise happy and secure children. I’m sure I speak for most mothers who want to do the best for their children and if they knew of the negative effects of leaving babies to cry, would certainly not follow the advice of their local Early Childhood Centre.
cc Ermington Early Childhood Clinic
Ombudsman, NSW Department of Health
regards
Kimberley
PS Amanda, I hope your move went well and Jesse is settling in.
| By pinky on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 12:07 pm: |
Go Mama Kimberly!!
What a fantastic letter. Because you have taken the time to write, somebody will have to take time to respond - and here's hoping they 'have a good think' about what is happening to undermine mothers' confidence.
As I teach infant massage, I see many parents who feel undermined that they are 'doing things wrong', when really these are what I define as 'cream of the crop" responsive parents. When I teach on Sundays I have couples who are working brilliantly as a team yet still being given a hard time by people (often professionals) who make careless comments such as you mentioned above - ie "isnt she a mummys girl" -
In fact, isnt it wonderful that she sees you as being the most important person in her world and she is securely attached to you!!!
Re speech and development -I believe that babies who are responded to/ played with etc will be well ahead of the silly charts -in fact last week at my Lactation course we were handed a chart on infant development -I forgot about being 'professional" (its a while since Ive looked at such charts) and exclaimed - " where did they find these kids - they are awfully slow." OOPs! Actually there is a wide range of 'normal' and some babies will be accelerated in speech, for instance while others will speed ahead in motor development -and eventually they will all be within the 'normal' spectrum somewhere.
Again,
congratulations on such a fabulous letter and also on being such a conscious, responsive parent.
Pinky
| By Kimberley on Saturday, April 16, 2005 - 09:03 pm: |
Thanks Pinky
I hope someone takes notice. I'm only just getting started and hope I can make a difference. I even took the information you posted about CC and the book Why Love Matters to my mother's group. I felt a bit awful as 2 of the other mothers were using CC on the day, but I guess if they're armed with the information they have the chance to make an informed decision about the parenting style they use. And thank you for your advice and support as I wouldn't know about the benefits of parenting by heart, so to speak, without your site. You even gave me the confidence to ditch the formula and trust that I was providing Elsbeth the best nutrition with breast milk. Thanks again. cheers Kimberley
| By Amys on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 08:05 am: |
That is a wonderful letter Kimberly. I hope it makes at least some people stop and think! I had mothers group this week where they were all (yet again) talking about controlled crying and getting there (less than 7 months old) babies to become 'independent' and 'sleep through the night.' All other mothers were advising one on how to control cry and stop the 'bad habit' of feeding a baby off to sleep. I felt very sad and pretty angry. Where are they all getting this crappy information from??? Mostly THOSE books and the MCHN. I did throw in some comments like 'it's natural to feed a baby to sleep' etc but I'm fighting a losing battle so I mostly just say nothing. I feel terribly sad for those babies though. Good on you for trying to do something about it!
Amy
| By Michelle Fulcher on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 04:01 pm: |
Hi Kimberly,
I've nearly spoken up at my mother's group a dozen times, but each time, I chickened out because I knew there were mothers there that were doing CC.
How did they take it? (I know that when I was going through my CC ordeal I would have loved someone to tell me I was doing the right thing by responding to my baby.)
But as Amy says, I would be fighting a losing battle, and making things tense. I haven't been to the group for about 2 months now because I always feel depressed after these conversations, especially hearing one mother belittle another for rocking her baby to sleep. I think it is that particular mother that I am scared of coming up against, but at the same time, I want them to know that they DON'T HAVE to do CC, and of the real risks of CC (emotional detachment etc).
Well done for educating more parents. Even if only one mother identified with what you said, it was worth it! I wish I was so brave!
Michelle
| By Kimberley on Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 05:04 pm: |
Thanks Amy and Michelle
It is a worry that we're given this poor advice by people who are there to help us and our babies as well as in written information. I've found CC recommended by Tresilian and Karitane (the 2 main sleep training centres in Sydney) and in a book by Christopher Green (paediatrician I think) and another one endorsed by Tresilian. I know exactly how you both feel and when I took the info to mother's group I just thought what the hell, I've got nothing to lose and it might just make another baby better off.
When giving out the info, I also made copies of the poems I have just posted under You Say as they give a good perspective from a baby's point of view and appeal to our emotions as mums. I also gave out the articles on Pinky's site called Don't be fooled by the Manual and Performance Anxiety (plus I gave Is my baby hungry to one mum who was thinking of quitting breast feeding as her bub was waking a lot at night). I was only going to give out the poems initially so maybe you could do this.
It sounds like you've got a pretty forceful mother in your group Michelle, I have one too and I guess this was my way of standing up to her. Now, if I can only get through to my MIL I'll be laughing. My hubby was coersced by her today to invite her over for dinner tonight so needless to say I'm soooo looking forward to it. Every time we see her, I say I'm not taking her rubbish...blah blah blah... and it all seems to work out but I have some new strategies up my sleeve for handling her such as if she questions my style or gives not so helpful advice: I'll say 'That's interesting, what makes you think that', or 'Why', or 'This works for our family, and unless it becomes a problem we're not going to change things'. I also read an example on the ABA website, or a link from it, which decribes using the sandwich of positive feedback (we're happy you're in our child's life), then my point (it makes me unhappy that you question our parenting style to the point that we may avoid visiting), and more positive feedback (we hope you can stay a positive influence in our's and our child's lives).
I've also found out who my contact person is to join a local support group through the ABA, so plan to start going to this.
cheers guys
Kimberley
| By Amanda Lalor on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
Hi Gals, Just a quick note to say wow great work!
I just wanted to quickly add on this topic that I have found that mothers you make other mothers feel crapy about their parenting choices are just doing so to make themselves feel more justifed for their own choices. A bit like a self defence mode. I have avioded the "typical" mothers groups for those reasons. Im still searching for one where mothers feel similarly to myself. Really you guys and Pinkys site are my support.
Sorry for the short post but will be back online again soon and will fill you all in.
Take care
Amanda
| By Amanda Lalor on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 12:23 pm: |
Actually Pinky! Jesse has developed a dermatitis (that the Doctor (who is vague at the best of times doesn’t know how it started) says is now thrush because the cream he gave me late last week doesnt seem to be working, By the way it started out on the end of his penis, spread to his scrotum and underneath his penis. Looks very sore and enflamed. Anyway as per his advice am using canisten. I read in Baby Love that babies can have yoghurt after a certain age (can’t remember what age). Wondering what your thoughts are on whether if I ate yoghurt would enough of the good bacteria be passed through the breast milk, can I feed it to him direct safely, other solutions you or anyone may have. I’m giving it until tomorrow to see any improvements otherwise I’m going to another medical practice.
Help! Thanks Amanda
| By Kimberley on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 12:57 pm: |
Hi everyone
just wanted to let you know I received a response yesterday regarding my letter about parenting styles advocated to new parents such as cc etc. The person I sent the letter to has requested my permission to pass on my letter through the Community Health Quality Committee to the Department of Health's Child and Family Policy Division. Someone has taken notice and hopefully more people will start to think in the Dept of Health and possibly make some changes, even being to advise parents that there are other strategies they can use and feeding/rocking to sleep is not wrong!!!
cheers Kimberley
| By Michelle on Friday, May 20, 2005 - 04:36 pm: |
YAY!!!
Round of applause for Kimberley!!!
| By pinky on Monday, May 23, 2005 - 08:22 pm: |
Bravo!!!
Fabulous- letters do make a difference!
Pinky
| By Amanda Lalor on Saturday, May 28, 2005 - 08:33 pm: |
Oh WELL DONE Kimberley! Thats great...
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, May 31, 2005 - 11:03 pm: |
Thanks guys
| By Brenda Vincent on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 04:23 pm: |
Hello to all, I'm new on this site. I am over whelmed reading all the wonderful advice. Am I allowed to ask if anybody can tell me if it's okay that my 2 year old son, Jackson stills wakes at around 2 or 3.30am demanding a bottle of milk.
If I refuse, the house becomes World War III!!, so instead I give him a quarter of a bottle and he promptly falls back to sleep. Any advice on what I should do or should I do nothing?
| By Amanda on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 08:57 pm: |
Hi Brenda and welcome! We're not up to that stage yet and we breastfeed but I would think that if its ok to extend breastfeed then I cant see why it should be any different for your son Jackson. Do you mind that he wakes and wants a bottle? I mean if you don’t mind then I can’t see it as a problem and would just go with the flow. He will I expect eventually grow out of it as with most things... To makes things easier do you have it already prepared and in a warmer type thing that you can just pass over or hand to him so that there is minimal fuss and you can go back to sleep or is it more involved... Could be worth looking at if you want to continue as is. If not then there are gentle ways of encouraging him to go back to bed without the bottle. One that I know of off hand is offering water and another offering water and having the Dad tuck them back into bed. Seems to work from what I hear. Have you tried offering water and having Dad or someone else tuck them back into bed? I know some people aren’t a fan of this book but I’m going to suggest anyway that you consider The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley...( http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/) it offers suggestions on how to help with sleeping issues like this. It’s been a while since I’ve read it otherwise I could share some of her suggestions. Sorry I can’t be more help! Amanda
| By Brenda Vincent on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 03:10 pm: |
Thanks so much Amanda. You must be thinking "is she kidding, just one feed in the night" !! I guess after 2 and a bit years of interupted sleep it gets to you after a while. I was a bit concerned that I might be encouraging a bad habit and then have trouble later. I feel much better that you've reminded me that they do grow out of most things. Being a first time Mum can be really trying at times. I admit I have tried the old water routine but he just throws the bottle at me...literally!!
I shall track down the book you suggested. Many thanks. Brenda
| By Amanda on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 08:26 pm: |
Oh pleasure Brenda...its nice to be a support to you! No I wasn’t thinking that at all. I know only too well the feeling of self doubt. I’m a first time mum too and Jesse is just over ten months so I’m sure I will be signaling you for help too =) You sound allot more positive about the night feed which is great! I had a laugh when you wrote that he literally throws the bottle at you - great mental picture lol In regard to the book I just feel it couldn’t hurt to add to your parenting toolbox so to speak – never know could be some hints... Please keep us posted! Take care Amanda
| By Michelle on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 08:53 pm: |
An idea that I've heard is to water the bottle down gradually, just little by little. Pinky would say 'gradually with love' I think.
(yep, this is a cult, Pinky's the guru and I've been brainwashed! *LOL* JUST KIDDING!)
I can imagine after 2.5 years of sleep deprivation it must be very trying.
Hope tonight is a good night for you...
Michelle
| By Brenda Vincent on Thursday, September 1, 2005 - 08:58 am: |
Your right! I have been gradually reducing the bottle from 240 to 120 and now 60ml over a 6 month period. Although this hasnt stopped Jackson from waking up thru the night. Thanks to Michelle for wishing me a good night, last night he slept thru to 400am, sipped on the 60ml for about 2 seconds and was back to sleep. I definetly had a spring in my step this morning !! Thank you thank you
Brenda
| By Amanda on Thursday, September 1, 2005 - 09:07 am: |
Oh Great Brenda...! I look forward to nights like that myself...only a few more years to go by the sounds of it... Take care Amanda
| By Pinky on Saturday, September 3, 2005 - 10:15 pm: |
hi Brenda- I did do a response here the other night along the lines of gradually with love - watering down bottle/ gradually reducing amount- which you are doing - then must have forgotten to post - der!!!
I reckon that as you are getting the amount down he will start sleeping longer. I believe that when they also have a fairly big drink in the nght as toddlers they then wake to wee -full bladder stirs them. So now hes having a small drink, he will soon sleep longer too.
If he was still waking the same time each night ( which seems like hes changing), you could try waking HIM - (thats right!) about half an hour before HE would normally wake, then each night wake him 10 mins later so you mess up his pattern. You would have to be highly organised so I think that what you are doing will be right on track- you obviously arent leaving him sucking so it shouldnt be a problem with pooled milk around teeth. Hope it all settles very soon.BTW - Pantley has a new books specifically about toddlers sleep. I havent read it but did read an extractwhich seemed good common sense.
Pinky
| By Brenda Vincent on Friday, September 9, 2005 - 03:53 pm: |
Dear Pinky, thank you for this wonderful advice, he is routinely waking at around 2-3am even on having about 20ml if that. I will set the alarm for 1.30am (I cant believe I'm doing this! but I'm willing to try it)and I'll report back to you in a couple of days, weeks whatever it takes. Oh dear, I'm feeling tired already...BrendaXOX
| By pinky on Friday, September 9, 2005 - 05:02 pm: |
Hi Brenda,
the studies seem to show it can take about ten days or so to "work" so be patient. Apparently you need to be very 'rewarding' - ie cuddle and calm your bub when you wake HIM - one bit of advice says to play gentle music but Im not sure Id be too exciting with a toddler. The theory is that the 'rewards' condition him to wait to be woken. ie the opposite of punishments - ie ignoring him after he has woken - a reverse of say, controlled crying.
Then you can wake him about 15 minutes later each night. Im interested to see how it works too.
Fingers crossed!
Pinky
| By Brenda Vincent on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 02:52 pm: |
Dear Pinky,
Here's an update on Jackson and the 'waking him' method. The first few nights he was very upset I'd woken him, the tables had turned, "Mummy is waking me!"! He wouldnt take the bottle and promptly went back to sleep until 5.00-5.30am. Night 5 he slept through and Night 6 the same and last night he just called out but went back to sleep after a comforting cuddle.
As far as I'm concerned this has been a success.
I am very grateful for the advise and I'm sure others will benefit too.
Best regards,
Brenda
| By Michelle on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 07:12 pm: |
Thanks for the feeback Brenda.
I've finnally gotten Taliver into the habit of waking just once around 2-3 for a feed and then sleeping through. I'm still happy with this arrangement at the moment, but if we don't naturally progress away from this routine over the next few months, I might just give that one a try.
Glad to hear it worked well for you. I'm not sure if I'll be able to convince my husband that waking a sleeping baby (especially a baby whom we've spent 15 months trying to get to SLEEP!) is a good idea, but I'll keep it in mind if the wakings start bothering me.
Well done for getting your little man sleeping better gently and peacefully!
Michelle
| By Pinky on Thursday, September 15, 2005 - 10:34 pm: |
Hi Brenda,
thats great to hear it worked so quickly - obviously the waking was simply a 'habit' not a 'need' and lovely that it can be 'fixed' without any distress .
Thanks for the feedback.
Pinky
| By Amanda on Friday, September 16, 2005 - 07:45 pm: |
Oh wow Brenda good for you and Jackson...! So happy for you =) Thats wonderful! Amanda
| By Brenda Vincent on Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 06:40 am: |
Thanks to the all regarding the 'wake up' method. So far Jackson is still sleeping through so it's not just a fluke! I'm sure as with most children he'll will change here and there but I'm now confidant enough to try other things. It really paid off. Thanks so much XXOOXX
Brenda
| By Amanda on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 07:28 pm: |
Thats great Brenda good for you...! Big hugs Amanda
| By ruth on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 03:15 am: |
i took my son to a osteopath and it worked wonders for him,he used to scream in agony everytime we tried putting his arms into his vest. i thought that this was normal for babies but spoke to my friend and she said her baby didn;t cry. After the first treatment he was fine,it helps loads with his reflux and dry skin.
the osteopath said that because my baby was engaged quite early the nerves in his neck were compressed and because my second stage of labour was very long (2.5 hours)there was alot of pressure on the nerves. i was in hospital for 10 days after he was born because i wanted to desperately breastfeed him, he was so sleepy and basically slept for those 10 days. and i can understand why, his head was so sore from spending 2.5 hours in the birth canal! it does make me wonder about the births of babies who cry for hours on end, is it because of a traumatic birth and they are in pain?? the treatment is especially good for unsettled colicky babies who cry alot. i would fully recommend going to an osteopath.
| By Amanda on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 07:49 pm: |
Oh Beth what an ordeal but isnt it wonderful you were able to resolve your little boys pain and discomfort. Very empowering! I agree, I think there is much we can do if we choose to look closer. Ive heard great things about Osteopaths. Jesse has had Bowen Therapy and it made such a difference to calming him down, also helped with teeth gringing too. Amazing stuff hey.
| By Pinky on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 08:41 pm: |
Hi Ruth - what a rough time for you and your baby. I absolutely agree it's worth checking babies after a difficult birth. Osteopathy s very gentle too. We have a great paediatric chiro locally - I have seen babies helped in so many ways; most recently a mum from one of my baby massage classes whose baby 'favoured' one side. After checking with various professionals she was told that there was nothing wrong with her bub. 3 visits to the chiro who found and treated a slightly dislocated shoulder, her baby is rolling and feeding on that side and now a happy little vegemite!
Im so glad you found the help you need -I agree wakefulness/ unsettled behaviour needs some investigating.
Pinky
| By Michelle on Sunday, February 19, 2006 - 09:37 pm: |
Thats great Beth! (That you found something to help your baby i mean) I too can vouch for osteopathy, it was a godsend for my back pain about 6 months after i had tj. (? epidural perhaps??). Wish I had taken taliver to get him checked out, as he was a very unsettled baby and did spend over an hour in second stage too and i always thought he may have been traumatised somehow (especially being in NICU for 5 days too). Anyway, i'm rambling cos i'm tired and should really be heading to bed.
| By rebeccab on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 12:36 pm: |
hi all,
i seem to be a bit of a complainer at the minute. i'm sorry for that but i have found such useful things from this forum that it seems silly not to put it out there and ask for your thoughts.
seamus (8mths) has just cut his top 2 teeth, moved from commando to regular hands and knees crawling and is now pulling himself up to stand, all in the last week. i know to expect a sleep disturbance with developmental changes but how long is reasonable before i consider other things to be making him so wakeful. for 2 weeks now he has been waking every 1.5-2 hrs, day and night. getting a bit tiring. so just interested in your thought and your experiences
becc
| By Kimberley on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:17 pm: |
Hey Becc
sorry to hear about the difficulties, maybe he's ready for less sleep during the day and would therefore sleep longer at night. Just an idea, though I'm sure there are lots of possiblities. cheers Kimberley
| By Pinky on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 02:30 pm: |
HUGE development going on Becc - when they stand, they cant get themselves down again due to an early reflex - when head is forward, legs are straight - they need to put head back for legs to bend . Not sure how long it takes before this reflex is inhibited ( would be handy to find out but Im sure it varies with each baby). Will investigate. Practising these new skills in sleep is great for brains - crap for mummies.
Include - teeth, new foods , mobility, sep anxiety and there is quite a bit going on in a tiny little mind. It may be a few more weeks but there is never harm in getting your child checked out - ?? sore ears/ sore throat - a few viruses going about. If a GP cant find any probs you could try a paed chiro or an osteo. Does he stay still enough for a massage?
Pinky
| By beck on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 06:53 pm: |
becc i can relate to the waking frequently overnight. oscar is 7 and half months and just started doing the same thing. i am feeling exhausted at the moment. what i have been doing is, after the kids go to school, i go back to bed with O and we both sleep. i find he sleeps longer if i am with him and god i need the sleep. i also have a 3 day rule. (don't ask why it just happened like that for my eldest i think i was told that increasing breast milk supply takes 3 days or something and it just stuck) i say oh this challenge will occur for 3 days. only 3 days. then once i get to no days i start again if i have to only 3 days. i know it sounds weird but alot of the time it does only last 3 days others well i have to kid myself! so my suggestion or what i am doing as i am going through something similar with O is sleep when you can and remember this too will pass
*she asks almost pleading*
by the way O has no teeth and doesn't look like getting any soon, does not crawl but is still going through this so go figure. i just have to ride the tide i guess hoping i don't get a wipeout!
beck
| By rebeccab on Monday, February 20, 2006 - 09:20 pm: |
funny, i have always done the rule of threes too!! maybe it'll be 3 weeks!lol, thanks for the support. i am blessed to have these precious babes, gotta keep looking at them all mushy then i'll stay focused.
becc
| By beck on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 - 04:47 pm: |
lol at 3 weeks, as longs as it's not months or years! ekkkkk
beck
| By rebeccab on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 08:03 am: |
argggghhh, getting worse not better. i got 2.5hrs sleep last night. am ceasing to function. can try to rest during the day but i NEED to sleep at night. i can't be driving a car when i am so zombied. i would just like to have maybe 60 continuous night time minutes of sleep. it's a bit tragic that i am beginning to fantasise about sleep.
thanks for support all, and no pinky, has never stayed still enough for massage. i can get his feet rubbed occasionally but not more than that really. too many things to do, cat fur to pull, fruit boxes to crawl into and get stuck in... you know how it goes.
becc
| By beck on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 11:03 am: |
ohhhh hugs becc. lucky we love them hey????!!!
beck
| By Amanda on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
Big hugs Becc! Sorry its not improving. Is Nigel available to help Ie not away for work at the moment? What about having your sis sleep over to help. Or what about having sis come over after theyre in bed to attend to any early waking so you can go to bed early and have some continuous sleep? What about cosleeping on a mattress so that if Seamus wakes you can just attach him and continue to sleep? I think this calls for extreme action. But you know if you cant get it at night you are going to have to get help in the day to get it there instead!
For what its worth I agree about sleep and you are not alone about fantasising about sleep. This is the new sex for me Im afraid very enticing lol sad but true.
Hang in there Becc. Thinking of you xo
| By rebeccab on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 06:31 am: |
i'm not certain i had the old sex. lol
becc
| By Amanda on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 12:39 pm: |
LOL ahh but a distant memory - right back at ya =o)
| By Pinky on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:23 am: |
Hi Becc - re overnights - a lovely doula called Melanie Cane does over nights - shes a breastfeeding counsellor too so very understanding and would never leave a baby crying but may be a help if she got to meet your wee man during the day. Sounds like he's INCREDIBLY busy. I like ( and bet you do too!)the sound of your sis helping too if thats an option - ie a familiar face/ person to soothe bub at least part of the evening. Can you have extra sleep early in the evening at all while somebody else takes responsibility for the littlies? You do need support!
?? read Sue dengates website ( ? again) and check whether diet could be affecting sleep ( his and yours) - or do you have a VERy bright baby who is doing lots of sleep brain processing?
Also - how is your own intake of essential fatty acids? low evels can affect sleep - yours and bubs - and moods.
Here's hoping you can work it out very soon.
Pinky
| By Amanda on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
Carlsons Cod Liver oil is a goodie - mercury free! Visit http://www.carlsonlabs.com/product_detail.phtml?prodid=00207&categid=0014
Sues website is http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/
Hugs Becc!
| By rebeccab on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 03:35 pm: |
where do i get the carlsons from amanda?
and thanks pinky, i am going to think hard about some extra help o/noght aswell. there have been no diet changes and i am already so carelful since nicholas was sensitive to salicilates in breast milk and later in his own diet and had quite bad excema that is now just an occasional flare up. seamus hasn't shown any skin signs, thanks goodness, so it suits me to think that he is just incredibly bright!! he is such a nice baby, i think we just have to feed our way to the other side.
xx thanks again,
becc i'll keep you all posted
| By Amanda on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 04:44 pm: |
You have to order it from the site I detailed, not available in AU...
| By Anonymous on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
Just wondering if I could get some advice.
My little boy is 12 weeks old and will not sleep through the day unless I hold him. Our saving grace is that he does sleep at night.
He use to sleep in the mornings and just cry in the afternoons so we would hold him to sleep in the afternoons. As we had complications with the delivery and he went into Intensive care we were so happy that he was alive and healthy that we loved to cuddle him to sleep. But now he is not sleeping at all through the day unless I hold him and my husband still cuddles him to sleep at night and then puts him into his cot where he stays asleep until waking for his night feed. After the night feed he goes back to sleep perfectly.
I have tried controlled crying to no avail and hate to hear him cry anyway but holding him to sleep all day every day is not realistic. I have read all sorts of things about getting him into a routine but this is so hard to do when I am struggling to get him to sleep. The poor little thing spends his day feeding then crying as he will not "self settle". The most I can ever get from him is 20 minutes but I believe that is only because he is exhausted from crying.
I am breastfeeding him and doing so on demand. I have read about setting his feeds to a strict time line eg only feed every 4 hours but not sure how I feel about that - have not tried it though.
He does throw up alot through the day but does not do so at night. I do wind him after every feed but still he is sick. Have seen the doctor and was told it is not reflux but told to keep my eye on it. So reflux has not been ruled out yet. But things I have read re reflux/colic seems to suggest that it all comes back to feeding and winding.
Any advice would be helpful as I am getting so weighed down with all the different info I am not sure what to do next. He is only 12 weeks old but of course I want to make sure I am doing the best for my little man as I know that he is not getting the sleep he needs and neither am I.
Sam
| By Michelle on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 08:19 pm: |
Hi Sam,
*Hugs* I found it very hard when my son was that young too. There is so much pressure to have a 'good' baby and I found it so hard to discern bad advice from good advice. I'm sure its all been a rollercoaster for you up until now, but eventually things will settle down.
I think lots of young babies tend to have sleeps in short bursts, especially during the day. If you think about other countries where the women have to work in the fields all day with a baby strapped to them, it makes sense really, the babies would feed, sleep then snooze a little be woken up by talking or a change in the rhythm of mum's movement, have a feed then go back to sleep.
I also had a baby who 'cat napped' through the day. When i did manage to get him better at napping, his night time sleep became more eratic. Its a good sign that your baby has already worked out day from night, very good. But by about 12 months, he was having a good, regular and predictable daytime nap.
I found it difficult to get Taliver into a routine, as everytime I figured out what his natural 'schedule' was, teething or milestones would come along and I was back to square one. That's one reason why I gave up trying to do controlled crying- it seemed like I had to repeat that awful process every two weeks!!
Okay, so here are a couple of suggestions; could you have a mattress on the floor (so he won't roll off and fall) where you can lie down with him?? I think its easier to sneak off once they are asleep if you don't actually have to move them. Or what about a sling, that way you can move about and do your normal things and he might just fall asleep and be happy to have lots of catnaps. I've heard the Ergo is very good, there are lots of places that give good reviews of all the different carriers. Another thing that might be worth looking into is your diet, I didn't know this at the time, but alot of unsettledness in babies can be caused by their tummies, and mothers diet can be a major factor in that. unfortunately, with small babies, they can't tell you what it is that is troubling them. Maybe it would be worth seeing a lactation consultant or nutritionist??
Also, "The no cry sleep solution" By Elizabeth Pantley might have some suggestions for getting him into a routine. Or even better, wait a couple of months for when Pinky's new sleep book comes out (I'm eagerly awaiting it!)
I guess the biggest (and hardest) thing that i learned with Taliver's lack of sleep, is just to go with the flow. Once i relaxed, he relaxed. If you know his sleep signals and try to put him to sleep when he is tired, that is all you can do. If he doesn't go to sleep, all you can do is try again a bit later. He will pick up on it if you start stressing out about how much sleep he is getting.
But every baby is completely different, these are merely my experencies- you know your baby best, so only do what feels right for you. I hope some of my experiences do help, but either way, you'll get there in the end. Taliver will be 2 years old next month. At 2 months old he was sleeping well at night but not napping much during the day. At 6 months he was waking every 2 hours during the night, and napping for 40 min stretches. At one year he was waking 3-4 times a night, and having 2 one hour naps. At 18 months he was having one one hour nap and waking 2-3 times a night. At 2 he is having a 1.5-2 hour nap and sleeping 8pm-4am waking for a quick feed then back down until 6.30am PURE BLISS!! And you know what?? it has absolutely flown by, I feel like it was just yesterday we were bringing him home from the hospital. A wise woman once told me "This too, shall pass. This too, shall pass"
Best of luck
Michelle
| By Pinky on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
Hi Sam,
Michelle is a wise woman!!!
There is soo much pressure isnt there? My daughter's baby is just 3 weeks old today and last week the nurse left her a "Feed play sleep" routine handout which advised her to leave her baby to cry for "up to 20 minutes" - a 2 week old baby!!!! It also said to be confident to show the baby 'you mean BUSINESS" - business was underlined and in caps!!
I am horrified at this advice - little babies take time to adapt to the world outside that warm safe womb -especially if they have had a difficult beginning - think of the sensory differences between womb and room. And also, they enter sleep through an active sleep phase in the first 4 months so this is why some babies have difficulty settling. Your baby may be finding it difficult to shut out sensory stmulation during the day, while at night there will be less stimulation so he can get back to sleep more easily. He really is doing VERY well.
Eventually he will be able to 'self settle' but 12 weeks is still very young. What you really need is an extra pair of hands to pass him to or to help you do some work. Can you afford a doula a couple of hours occasionally - or invite a friend to help you - everyone loves to share a baby!!
Is he happy to have one longer sleep in a sling? Have you tried a hammock? - it may be worth checking out baby hire, rarther than outlaying lots of $$ (I have a link on my site - see links page) - just use your own mattress - there is suggestion that second hand mattresses are a factor in SIDS risks. Or perhaps a small rocker would be an option for some day sleeps - or try the usual aids such as gentle music - baby massage can help many babies at this age to relax and settle for longer too.
Really - it will pass and get easier so hang in there - my book "Sleeping Like a Baby" will be released beginning of July - sorry it cant be sooner! 100 Ways to Calm the Crying should be helpful too but there are only 2 copies left -the warehouse is empty so I need to wait and see if a reprint is happening.
Pinky
| By Anonymous on Saturday, May 20, 2006 - 09:09 am: |
Thanks for responding Michelle and Pinky. I did read your book 100 Ways to Calm the Crying Pinky.
But I have actually found a solution. I went to a sleep clinic held my the local community nurse. She simply put him into bed wrapped on his side with a rolled up towel placed in front of him to stop him rolling onto his stomach. He went to sleep straight away and has done so ever since, well only the 4th day but so far so good. He did end up on his stomach once but he has good head control so is able to lift his head to the side and I found him fast asleep on his tummy. He now refuses to sleep on his back. We did also raise the mattress a little.
So there you go. From crying every sleep time to going to sleep straight away with just a quick sshh and a little pat. Thank goodness....
| By Michelle on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 03:21 pm: |
That's wonderful that it worked for you so quickly and easily. Do you think it was lying him on his side that made the difference??
Taliver is a tummy sleeper (100% of the time!) and sometimes I wonder if he would have slept better when he was little if he was allowed to sleep on his tummy. I wouldn't risk it, but I wish I had've tried him on his side.
| By Anonymous on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 01:52 pm: |
help i cant get my three and a half year old to get rid of her dummy. She only sleeps with it but i am really worried that it is starting to effect her speech etc have taken it and her special toy "big dog" of her but to no end she screamed yelled made herself sick etc wanted them back she has ahd them for ever so i understad there will be some ajustment but i have a baby in my house that cant sleep while she carries on screaming for her comforters! So she wins them back again so everyone can get sleep! Help i think it is starting to affect her speech any ideas???
| By Kimberley on Sunday, May 28, 2006 - 04:46 am: |
Hi Anon
Big hugs for you and your daughter. I'm no expert here, but my opinion would be that she is better off emotionally keeping them for the time being. I imagine she may need them more as there is a new bub on the scene. My niece, who was 2 and 3/4 when her brother was born, started pinching his dummies and used them for a while. I'm not sure how long she had them, but I think within his first year, she'd ditched them. I think toddlers will adapt to their environment the best way they know how, and for your daughter, she's obviously getting comfort from her toy and dummy. If you're concerned about her speech, you could get a referral from your GP to see a speech therapist for an assessment. They often run free or cheap clinics through the university which trains them in your state. I wonder if she only uses the dummy for sleep, that perhaps speech changes might be more developmental, rather than physical, if that makes sense, and may pass quickly. What I mean by this is that perhaps she's regressing in her language on purpose to be more like a baby as she isn't ready to give up her post. I may be totally wrong, but it might be worth considering. I know it's hard with a baby to care for, but maybe she needs some special time from mummy if possible. I'm sure you're doing everything you can and a great job, we all know it's not easy!!! I'd just keep it low key for a while and try to give her as much attention as you can. All the best, Kimberley x
| By Pinky on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
What wise advice Kimberly - it is best not to amke too many changes when there is already a big change such as a new baby - her toy wont do any harm/ is probably a lovely comfort and in a few weeks or months - when she seems settled, perhaps you could try this suggestion from a mum which I have included in my new book "Sleeping like a baby" - tell your little one a special story about the dummy fairy then one night the dummy fairy comes and takes the dummy but leaves a new toy - a soft doll- in place of the dummy. The child in the interview took her dolly to bed and never asked for her dummy again - dont you wish it was that easy for every child? At least its a nice gentle option to try. OR could you try adding a cue such as gentle music and a meditation story at bedtime ( while she sucks the dummy). Then, when the dummy fairy comes she will already have something else to help her sleep so it wont be like losing her only sleep aid - lets face it we all have sleep aids - mines a hot drink and if Im "antsy" ( had a busy time/ cant switch off) I play a meditation CD .
Best of luck and please dont beat up on yourself - we all do whatever we need to maintain family harmony.
| By Amanda R on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 08:37 am: |
No advice from me - just some reassurance I guess. My 3 1/2yo son still has his dummies (yep 2, one in the mouth and one to fiddle). He only uses them for sleep or if he is unwell. I am not worried about it as I figure that I've never seen a school kid with a dummy and he'll give them up when he is ready. We gently tried recently and the very same day he came down with an ear infection so we promptly aborted the notion of it all for a little while longer. I'm figuring that he is a very secure, happy go lucky little boy, who leaves me (too happily) for kinder and is doing a stellar job of toilet training so-----dummies are fine. Don't want him growing up too quickly!!
| By Michelle on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 07:21 pm: |
Another nice thing for saying goodbye to dummies that my friend did is this...
Leading up to christmas she told her daughter that santa would need to take her dummies so that he could give them to all the new, tiny babies but of course he would leave her toys in place of the dummies. And it was a very easy transition for them also. I think it worked well because she had lots of time to warm up to the idea, and her excitement about christmas helped ease the pain of letting them go. I think they even left all the dummies out for santa with his cookies and milk or something.
I don't see any need to be taking the toy dog off her- its not causing any problems is it?? And it might prove helpful for her to have her dog as a comfort when she looses her dummies. Dog will probably become a very special relic of her childhood for her as well.
| By Susan Smith (Susan) on Tuesday, September 4, 2007 - 07:53 pm: |
For some reason I feel guilty about my DS who is nearly nine months having a dummy to sleep. Maybe I think it's a sign that I'm not a good Mum - that I need something artificial to help my baby to sleep. Anyway, we have tried the gentle removal method but he still wakes three or four times a night and we need to put the dummy back in for him to go back to sleep. I have received two different schools of advice - one is to let him have it and wait until he is old enough to 'buy' something with it (about two), the second is to go cold turkey now - and I know he will scream and cry because he misses it.
We are at the stage now where we can teach him to find his own dummy in his bed. Help! I'm just not sure what to do.
We have tried introducing a lovey complete with my smells but he hasn't attached to it yet.
| By Suzie on Tuesday, September 4, 2007 - 08:23 pm: |
Hi Susan,
I would certainly try and banish any guilty feelings ! Its hard enough being a Mum without feeling bad over the little things that will probably have no effect in the future.
But as for your immediate question, I would let him use it if not having it would cause distress. And if that is only until 2 years old I can't see that any harm will come from it. You can always try a bit earlier when he understands things a little easier. I think cold-turkey at 9 months old seems a bit harsh when part of the reason he has it is for comfort.
Hopefully that is useful but more than anything don't let yourself think you aren't a bad Mum! You sound like a lovely, caring Mum to me. Suzie
| By Michelle on Wednesday, September 5, 2007 - 08:30 am: |
Hi Susan, I agree with Suzie, banish those guilty feelings, if it works for your family, use it. Don't worry about future problems, they might never happen!!
It is possible to change things if you aren't happy with them, but gently and gradually is the key.
Be gentle on yourself
Michelle
| By Emma Orrock on Monday, September 17, 2007 - 08:14 pm: |
Hi I was just after some advice my daughter is 8 months old and is waking 2 0r 3 through the night most of the time it is just for a quick feed and then back to sleep, but lately she will wake between 4 and 5 am and then won't go back to sleep for about an hour. Do you have any suggestions on what i can do so she either doesn't wake up then at all or something so she will go back to sleep quickly!
| By Michelle on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:37 am: |
Hi Emma,
I can't remember which section it is in, but somewhere on here, some mothers have tried waking their baby about 30 mins before the usually wake time- so for you it would be about 3.30am, they are usually still sleepy, so go back to sleep after the usual comforts are given, and then gradually push the wake-up time later and later. Then, the baby might wait for you to wake her up for a feed, and stay asleep until morning. That's the hope anyway. It only really works for one usual wake up at a time, so I'd suggest starting with the 4-5am feed, and then if it works perhaps start on another feed. It only really works if your baby is waking up at the same time each night though.
Hope that helps
Michelel
| By KimMB on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 04:29 pm: |
Hello, for at least the last 4 wks our 6 month old girl has been waking hourly. At first it was teething, then the flu and then it was just waking up . . . constantly
Yesterday, out of desperation, I was prepared to start Controlled Crying. But first I searched the "A Current Affair" website for info about their story on getting babies to sleep. There I found a link to Pinkys forum. In the short amount of time I had (while 3 yr old watched TV), I read so much and was enormously consoled that other Mum's are enduring the same torturous lack of sleep.
Anyway, last night I raised one end of her cot & put her to bed with less layers than previously. She woke an hour after I put her down, but settled immediately. I fed her at midnight and then woke her just before 6am for another feed. DISBELIEF !
I have been so tired that I didn't realise that she was waking from discomfort. I have been putting too many blankets on her (because I was cold). I was feeding her when she woke because I thought she was hungry, but this seemed to be causing her tummy pains.
My family offer no support and my partner is frequently interstate for several nights. It is hard for mums these days. And it is a shame that we can't appreciate this most precious time with our babies because we are so tired. I am also enormously grateful for such a wonderful resource as this forum. Although I don't have spare time to browse the net, it is great that this sort of practical information is readily available.
| By Michelle on Wednesday, September 19, 2007 - 08:37 pm: |
Hi Kim,
what a heartening story, I hope your bubs sleep continues to improve like this. It is so hard to figure out what little babes are going through, especially when we are sleep deprived ourselves and thoughts seem to re-arrange themselves LOL.
It sounds like you are doing an awesome job with your children, with little family support!
Cheers
Michelle
| By julie on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 12:03 am: |
Hi Kim,
I'm thinking of you. Yes i think no sleep is hard for all mum's out there as they do say we don't come with booklets. lol. if only we did.
You sound like a lovely mum. You sound as though your in tuned with your kids and i think that is wonderfull. Good Luck Kim We Are Your Support Right here, so when you are feeling down we will listen to you as i don't know what i'd do with out these great mum's. Cheers Julie.