By beck on Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - 04:46 pm:

ok my niece's baby is not interested in bfing at all. he is 24 hours old and has not attached yet. he is 2 weeks early had a peaceful natural birth/labour - he is only 6 lbs 10. my niece had gestational diabetes on insulin injections 4 times a day hence they were worried about his blood sugar levels. they gave him 30 mls of formula when he was first born, at stages not altogether, to keep him out of special care nursery. although grrrrr i would have given milk, 30mls i can get that when i first attach the pump at work in the first squeeze. when i went in to visit i suggested she unwrap him and open up her bra and just let him nuzzle which he did and started to lick and attempt to suck, no cigar though. i went to the desk after talking to my neice and my sister and asked if i could donate bm oh no against hospital policy oh blah blah blah, i asked if babe's blood sugar levels were ok they said yes i asked if my niece could refuse formula without endangering him. they rang paed, i said we were culturely opposed to formula and that we all bf until our baby's at least 2 and went on about it that way so they told the paed that and i think that is why he had to say yes to no more formula cos it was a 'cultural' issue! so we will refuse formula. then this other midwife comes in and looks at sheet and he has had an additional 70 mls WTF i said so in 24 hours he has had 100mls. hmmm she says not impressed either. they said the only way he can have my baby's milk is if she discharges herself. she is keen so i am in the process of trying to speak to my sister to organise it, she still lives at home, she's only 18. my poor nephew the first thing that lines his gut is bloody buggary cow's milk. also i wonder if i had said i want to bring in our own low allergy formula whether they would have batted an eyelid
help pinky what else can i do?
beck

By Pinky on Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - 07:19 pm:

Hi beck - sounds like you are doing heaps!! She is lucky to have an aunty who is so forthright! Love the 'cultural' issue.

Now re breastfeeding - bub needs very little colostrum in the first 48 hrs - you have done it all perfectly - skin contact etc - can mum express a little colostrum and give it to bub in a syringe? Will this satisfy the nurses? If blood sugar levels are stable, it shouldnt be a problem - BF babies wouldnt get 100 mls in day one anyway. I thought formula had to be'medically indicated' or signed for before being given. AND NO TEATS should be the rule whatever is being given to bub - there just seems to be no justification for what has been done to this baby - can you ask for a meeting with the nursing supervisor? Paed? Take some written info? -Try the lactation resource centre at ABA. They should have relevant stuff at their fingertips Sorry I have lent my darn textbooks to another Lc who was resitting the exam. Will see what I can find to copy.

Ask to see an LC at the hospital -I assume they have them in every hospital. Surely somebody knows this is crap.

Pinky

By beck on Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - 09:59 pm:

thanks pinky, ok i went back in to see her and the same midwife that seemed as horrified as me at the amount of formula he's had has taken her under her wing and helped her express and even asked if i wanted to try and help attach him. he still won't suck, but he won't be having formula tonight fingers crossed. she has decided she will leave tomorrow and she said she would like me to stay with her so we can get him bfing together and i really think she needs that support at the mo. i have expressed some milk for her if we need it but i kept explaining to her that baby's don't get anything other than colostrum until your milk comes in and that is normal. i tell you it is infuriating that this girl has seem us all breastfeed but a couple of midwifes start with their misinformation and she doubts what she has known all her life. anyway, my sisters and her sisters will be there and this baby will bf. thanks for the input and i may pick your brain more later.
any ideas why this little one is not sucking?
beck

By Michelle on Wednesday, October 4, 2006 - 01:04 pm:

There was a girl on here a while ago, who had alot of trouble with feeding and it turned out to be 'tongue-tie' perhaps you could ask a paed to check his tongue to rule that out? As I beleive its a fairly simple op and is easily fixed once its been diagnosed.

You said she had a natural labour, but I'm not sure if that means drugs or not- if she had drugs, they may be in bub's system and making him more sleepy than usual??

Your neice is SO lucky to have such a supportive family! It sounds like she is off to a great start with such a wonderful 'village' to help her out!!

By paula on Wednesday, October 4, 2006 - 01:40 pm:

Hi Beck,
What a fantastic job you are doing for your niece. One would hate to imagine the possibilities if you were not there to give them such support. Keep up the good work for your "tribe".
Paula.

By beck on Wednesday, October 4, 2006 - 07:05 pm:

michelle natural to me is no drugs sorry to not make that clear. also i checked his mouth and frenulum and he clearly does not have tongue tie. he is sucking this morning but i'm afraid they gave him more formula overnight and she is not able to leave because she is unstable at the moment. i am so distressed by all this and angry, i have 300mls of breastmilk in my freezer for him and we are not allowed to give it to him. grrrrr
thanks for the support.
beck

By beck on Friday, October 6, 2006 - 08:22 pm:

ok gals, an update. my niece came home last night with a nipple shield. she stopped at my house to pick up the ebm (but hasn't needed it - suprise suprise no formula either). i went over there today and stayed the day. i helped her attach him etc. by the end of the day she wasn't using the shield at all. when i suggested we not use the shield, she said she would try and when he attached beautifully and suck swollen started she was like omg i didn't know i could do it without a shield. the hospital told her to feed him every 4 hours.... what the hell. i suggested she try just plug him on when he wakes which turns out a very normal 2 - 2 1/2 hourly. the midwife was there when i arrived today asking why she hadn't filled out the feeding chart and when she was feeding him. when my niece said about 2 hourly she started to go into waiting 3-4 hourly cos she'll be exhausted and the baby will be exhausted and i just couldn't stand it so i just started - look i said my niece has been given alot of misinformation from your hospital and she really just wants to give her son the best which is breastmilk so waiting 3-4 hourly is going to jepodise her supply, his health and put her at risk of mastitis. so what she wants to do is use infant led cues so when he crys she will try feeding him first. this is the right way to breastfeed as all the literature suggests. have you a problem with this? she stammered and stuttered a bit and was on her way. i am working on the weekend but will be there all day on monday from 830 - to school pick up. i love it, and she is so into her baby it's just lovely. i had to laugh by the end of the day she was saying when he sorta snuffled 'ok boob time again' without looking at the clock or worrying about time. yay that's my girl. i am so proud of her, she has had a really tough time, she has a mild intellectual disability and now is doing so well. i just love her and my new great nephew to bits.
beck

By rebeccab on Friday, October 6, 2006 - 09:30 pm:

yay, good for all of you.
becc

By Patrice M on Saturday, October 7, 2006 - 06:03 am:

Hooray! I'm so glad to hear things are going well for your niece and great nephew.
You are a fantastic aunt to help out like this! Go Beck!

Cheers

Patrice

By pinky on Saturday, October 7, 2006 - 10:58 pm:

Go Beck!! What a fabulous auntie - a wonderful advocate for your niece and baby nephew. Isnt it wonderful to watch her bonding so beautifully and managing so confidently and intuitively???

Lots of love to the new mum and bub,
Pinky

By Michelle on Sunday, October 8, 2006 - 09:09 am:

Wow, she is so lucky to have you!!
I sure wish I'd had someone like you to tell me that the midwives advice was terrible!!

I worked it out eventually, but it sure would've made it less of a struggle.

Congratulations to all of you!

Michelle

By beck on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 09:16 pm:

and so the saga continues....

so i have finally got L (my niece)to a stage where she is getting confident without the shield on one side and sometimes using the shield on the other, and she has to go back to hospital cos A (my great nephew) has a temperature. so A is admitted early this morning to the special care nursery and i arrive at 9am to see my great nephew with a damn bottle in his mouth with damn formula in it. i ask them to remove it immediately. i tell them he is not to have any more, i find my niece expressing milk after feeding him with ebm in the jar but oh no they are feeding formula. anyway they want to 'top him up' and i told the doctor they are not to use formula, and did the dr know why the so called 'breastfeeding friendly' hospital appears to be pressuring L to give formula. i am fuming at them. i tell her we come from a culture that bfs until at least 3 and feed each others kids if necessary and donate milk if required. the dr then suggests that there is something wrong with his mouth because he can't latch, i told her i had fed him and his latch was fine it was just my niece has flat nipples. she nearly fell off her ivory tower! so anyway i took in 200mls of my milk for them to give him, we just told them it was her milk even though she told them she hadn't expressed before. when i dropped it into the special care nursery the nurse said that's not her milk (i had bf O in front of her and she had asked how old O was and then rolled her eyes - omg he's a baby still stupid beep) anyway i said it was L's milk (they had told me earlier they do not use donated milk) she argued for a while but i guess she resigned herself to the fact that if we said it is she can't prove it isn't. so they have been topping him up on that. i hope they will discharge them tomorrow and they will stay at my home and hopefully she will get rid of that beeping nipple shield and get confidence once again in her body's ability to breastfeed her son. her supply would be fine if beeping staff didn't keep going on about his weight, her flat nipples and pushing damn formula. in 10 days he had gained 120grams which in my books is fine considering the stress L is under, the nipple shield and her lack of sleep. anyway i have to work on the weekend but on sunday L and A are coming to stay with me for the whole week(i am struggling to drive the 45 minute drive to her home with my bubba and then get back to do mummy things for my boys) she is very keen and i am loving helping her not to mention having a little munkin around.
i just feel so very cross at the hospital and their apparent laziness in using formula and not waiting to use her ebm. the other thing the dr said was they did not want to jepodise A's health if he needed extra calories and i said well that's where we differ because i strongly believe you are jepodising his health by feeding formula. then she admitted that she has felt guilty in the past for recommending formula and then found nothing wrong with the baby and shouldn't have recommended it and i said she should perhaps use that guilt to her advantage and think twice before recommending it. what a disgrace.
and how dare that hospital turn their nose up at my 'donated milk' and want to use donated cows milk instead sniff sucked in you are using it!
grrrrrrr to that hospital it shouldn't be like this!!!!!!!
beck

By paula on Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:04 pm:

Beck,
You are truly amazing. I do so wish I had an advocate like yourself during my early feeding days.
Paula.

By Michelle on Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 10:24 am:

What a backwards world we live in- when it is normal to give a child milk from another species and turn our nose up at that which God himself provided us women with!!

I really hope your advocacy has changed the way those doctors and nurses think Becc!!
Its truly ridiculous that this is even happening. The sad thing is, it is happening all the time, its just that most women don't have anyone to stand up for them and their babies and they are pressured into doing something they don't want to do. Especially when the doctor says that they are doing the best for their baby- when its just not true. These doctors really need to realise the weight their words have.

By beck on Friday, October 13, 2006 - 07:26 pm:

just want to say that A gained 160grams in 3 days doing 1st side 2nd side 3rd side 4th side. still using the nipple shield but L's confidence that she can breastfeed is heaps better and so next week when she stays with me we plan to try and reduce it's use. i am so proud of her. as soon as she left the hospital, who wanted her to use the 3-4 hourly feeding routine again i got her to dump that and he feeds again when he wants it. oh he is so delicious.
beck

By Michelle on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 09:43 am:

Hey, that's great!!
I find Taliver still often wants to do 4 sides. Its great now he's older because he points and says 'that one' LOL.

By Fed Up on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 09:39 pm:

Interesting that we haven't seen anymore comments here, did the niece continue to breastfeed under these conditions ? I came to this website with hopes of supportive advice, but I have been completely put off now. I had so many issues and was not able to breastfeed and in the end I realised how completely selfish I was to deprive my hungry and crying baby when he needed something to eat. It's fine to persevere but there are certainly circumstances which prevent women from continuing to try to breastfeed and the "breastfeeding nazis" as I call them make these women including myself feel incredibly guilty when we have had enough. Continue congratulating yourselves for what wonderful mothers you are, I am a better mother for realising my limitations and what my baby really needs. I went into the situation thinking I would breastfeed and do nothing else as it was best, what a shock when it didn't work - this was made so much worse by the breastfeeding nazis who offered no help but just pushed pushed pushed, i had no constructive help from ABA either, no one at all. I was dumped like a hot potato when i discontinued trying too, pushy people are the worst and so holier than thou. Come on get real, no one is perfect. I can't read these sort of comments anymore, i'm switching to a different website that is more understanding.

By Suzie on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 09:02 pm:

Hi Fed Up,

It is a shame you had such a difficult time breastfeeding at the beginning and weren't able to get it established. It is one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life. And it is important to recognise that at the end of the day what you are trying to do is to feed your baby (as you did).

I have found this forum very supportive and interpret the posts on this site to be very non-judgmental. Perhaps if you had found it when you were having difficulties there may have been some suggestions but more importantly support for your difficulties. I had a friend who was also unable to breastfeed and persevered and expressed for many, many months. I think it is something she is still very disappointed in (and it is almost 2 years later now). I wish there was more support in our society (and by that I mean easy to reach, non-judgemental, professional support) to help Mum's establish breastfeeding - those first few months are crucial.

In the same way that you felt rejected by people who pushed their breastfeeding advice on you I have received a lot of criticism by people who think I should stop breastfeeding (from as early as 6 months - and it took me 3.5 months to even get it established as I had retained placenta creating havoc with my supply). It would be a perfect world that would allow us both to make our decisions and not be criticised for them. I try to be non-judgemental and it is easily the biggest lesson I have had to learn as a Mum; but I am definitely not perfect.

I think rather than congratulating ourselves we are providing support to one another on issues that are incredibly difficult for many Mums - breastfeeding, sleeping difficulties, behaviour etc. And perhaps that can sound self-congratulatory but when things are difficult it is a good place to come and hear some kind, supportive words.

All the best, Suzie

By julie on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 01:16 pm:

Hi Fed Up.

I have to say i agree with Suzie. I didn't brest feed my two neither. But I have to say i do regret not being able to. But they are healthy and formula did the trick. I really don't think we need to be hard on our selves just because we wernt able to breast feed.

It's a shame you have decided to go to another site. We are trying to support each other. I don't know what i'd do with out the support i get from these wonderful mum's. If you do decide to come back to the site i'm shure u will see what i see. Even if the advice dosent suite me it's the fact that someone is listening and have walked in similar issuses as i have.

I hope u find what is that u are looking for. Cheers Julie.

By Michelle on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 09:04 pm:

Hi Fed up,
I'm sorry too that you took our congratulations to the mum's who overcame difficult obstacles to be an insult to anyone who bottle feeds. I was very lucky in that I didn't have too much difficulty, but I was also lucky because my family was extremely supportive of me breastfeeding. I don't know, because I haven't walked in their shoes, but I think some mothers who bottle-feed might feel a bit of greif about not breastfeeding (or not feeling supported enough to breastfeed) that doesn't get talked about.
So, if you do come back and read this (or if there are other's reading who feel similarly angry) I'd really like to hear from you again, I'd like to hear your story, the obstacles you faced and what support you really needed.

I agree Suzie, it upsets and infuriates me when people use terms like "breast nazi" (how lovingly giving a child a warm breast be in anyway compared to the nazi regieme is beyond me) when I get called "disgusting" and "not natural" for breastfeeding past the age of 2 at my playgroup.

I'm sure you are a wonderful mother fedup and have nothing to feel guilty about. You made the best decision for you and your child.
My comments earlier were not meant to criticise or undermine mothers who bottlefeed. I was and am angry at care-providers who pressure mothers to use formula with no good reason- and this includes my own experience at the hospital.

By beck on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:55 pm:

hi fed-up just to answer your question, my neice is still breastfeeding and A is nearly 11 months old. She is very happy about her perserverance and proud of herself as she should be.

by the way no-one can make you feel guilty, or anything for that matter, it is a person's reaction to a situation.

good luck
beck