By lisalucas on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 08:51 am:
| By lisalucas on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 08:51 am: |
hi, i am the proud mum of two beautiful daughters Caitlin 3yo and Madeleine 3months old and i am finding second time around things are not troubling me as much as they did the first time around. i am writing a book on common breastfeeding problems in the early days and weeks after birth. i am looking for mums and dads who want to share some of their trials and how they overcame them with other parents in my book so that other parents can see that they have a support system of people who have overcome similiar problems and give them back the confidence to parent with their instincts. we are so bombarded with the media telling us what is good for us and what is not. i believe we all have it in us to parent successfully but some have lost the confidence in their own decision making. if anyone would like to know more or submit a story on milk supply, how often to feed, one breast or two per feed, spoiling a newborn or other topics you might have please email me lisa@dlucas.auzy.net or post to this forum. my web site is in construction so feel free to email me for more information.
thanks
lisa.....
| By Michelle on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:48 pm: |
I think Taliver is weaning!!
Today I think it was much worse because he is teething (won't eat either, only wants to drink water really) but lately he has been extremely dis-interested in feeding, even at night (don't get excited, he still wakes up plenty!). I'm feeling a bit sad, but at the same time, I AM going back to work in June so it is probably good to get his breastfeeds down. Plus, as an attached mum I feel it is best to follow his cues. He IS still feeding which is good but I feel like he doesn't take enough. I think I'm a bit overzealous in offering it to him too regularly because I am scared that he will wean completely.
I guess the thing is that I really enjoy breastfeeding (I always have- the first time I attached him when he was 4 days old after being in NICU, my hubby asked how it felt. "Wonderful" I told him) and these 11 months have just gone WAY too fast. I don't know if I should wean him now (I've heard it's easier when they are 12-18 months as they naturally have decreased interest as they are too busy discovering the world) or if I should keep offering it to him to keep him interested and then possibly be feeding a toddler and dealing with the stares in public and comments from people. (Plus, he is a very strong willed baby and is likely to become a strong willed toddler....i don't know how much fun it will be to wean a strong willed toddler).
Any mothers who have been through the weaning process, I would love your thoughts/opinions on the subject. Or mother's who haven't yet weaned- Do you have any idea's on when you'd like to wean??
| By Pinky on Friday, April 29, 2005 - 11:45 pm: |
Im really tired tonight and am getting up early again to go to a conference so Ill be brief (maybe!) -
pluses of nursing a toddler - its a lovely way to reconnect after a day at work; its a fabulous way to soothe the little 'misunderstandings' that happen before your child can really express himself verbally; helps with independence as toddler 'touches' base in small doses; it is ok to postpone nursings with a toddler - you dont HAVE to nurse in public if this feels uncomfortable, but then again, if you can handle it, its great modelling to normalise breastfeeding beyond infancy.
The WHO recommends breastfeeding til two years and beyond; the world average age for weaning is 4 1/2 years!
Immunity factors are concentrated once your baby becomes mobile which is fabulous as now they are exposed to more bugs as they explore the world - if your child is in daycare, even a small amount of breastfeeding will be protective against the myriad bugs he will be in contact with; breastfeeding is one thing only YOU can do for your baby, so if he is nursing when you work, this can feel really special.
Nursing may be the only thing to defuse a strong willed toddler - you wont need a 'naughty mat!"
Separation anxiety can be really strong at 12 - 15 months so really a better time for weaning is around 18 months or older. Personally I found nursing longer (several years, my kids self weaned and I even ended up tandem nursing my girls who were 3 years apart) was really lovely and older toddlers dont nurse lots like small babies. In fact they may not even nurse every day as they gradually space out feeds - a good rule of thumb with weaning is 'Gradually with love" - no more than one feed a week if consciously dropping / replacing feeds, but you can wean a bit and just nurse say, morning and evening , letting your baby and your breasts adapt in baby steps.
Its what feels right for you and YOUR baby, and if you are happy and enjoying breastfeeding - its your business, not anybody elses. Breastfeeding is a wonderful mothering tool for the toddler stage.
11 months is a great effort!!! Well done.
A tip to encourage nursing while bub is teething and refusing, is to try and nurse when he is drowsy or in a light sleep before he actually stirs- often bubs will suck well in a sleepy state.
I am in a very sleepy state but a good book to read is Mothering your Nursing toddler by Norma Jane Bumgarner - available from ABA.
Pinky
| By Michelle on Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
Thanks Again Pinky! You are a treasure!
With my fears allayed I am confident to keep on nursing...For as long as it takes! Breastfeeding is really important to me and everything you've said makes sense. It is really good to hear about your experiences too.
Thanks for replying even though you were very sleepy. Hope your conference goes well seeing as you had to get up early!
| By Kimberley on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
Hi there Michelle
I have been wondering about the weaning thing too. I had originally planned to feed for 6 months, but we're up to 8 months now and going strong. The next obvious target is 12 months (which is expected by others and not frowned upon). Although, through reading I'm aware of the WHO recommendation of 2 years and beyond, so have extended my goal to around 18 months. I read somewhere that you can refer to feeding as 'mimmies' or something similar so when bub asks for a drink in public others don't know what they're saying, or think they're asking for mummy. I guess at that age, it will probably be a comfort/connecting thing maybe morning and night as Pinky says. I have to say I have come a really long way in accepting BFing as normal as I was one of those people who used to gawk or tut tut at women who fed in public (I know pretty bad of me!!), but I guess I was conditioned to think that boobs should be covered even though I now know that my boobs are doing exactly what they're meant to and are nourishing my bub so how could there be anything bad about that? I don't know how I'll go with changing the world, but maybe one person at a time eh!
Godd luck with the feeding and would be keen to know how you go.
cheers Kimberley
| By Michelle on Monday, May 2, 2005 - 06:50 pm: |
"I don't know how I'll go with changing the world, but maybe one person at a time eh! "
That's what I think everytime someone gives me a sideways glance...Or when my brother (same one from the CIO story!) says it makes him feel 'weird' when I breastfeed! And now I think I'll be brave and take it one step farther- educating people that it is normal for older babies to nurse too! I don't think I'm going to set myself any weaning goals (I never really had any, I just knew I really wanted to breastfeed, I never really thought about ending it) I'll just go with the flow from now on. Since he is well and truly on solids now I think I will TRY not to worry if he doesn't want any one day and wants it all day the next.... I've read that babies who have fully weaned can actual re-establish a milk supply, so if he wants it bad enough he will suck more and so my supply will increase.
I'm glad to see that your attitude has changed... I wish some mothers I know (even those who are breastfeeding) would accept breastfeeding as normal. (One of my breastfeeding friends brought a bottle with her to my home, despite the fact that I have been breastfeeding in front of their family for 11 months!)
Seeing as you felt uncomfortable seeing other women breastfeeding in public, how did you go doing it? or don't you?
just curious...I've always been surprised when I hear women bitching about breastfeeders. But then, I grew up in a house where the babies were breastfed, so that probably shaped my opinions. Its funny though, my mum was much more relaxed about giving the bottle than I am...so I don't know where I got my anti-bottle attitude hehehe.
He's been absolutely miserable today...he's cutting his 4th tooth now (the 3rd barely affected him, but this one is giving him major grief). Hopefully tonight or tommorow it will cut and ease his suffering!
toodles
Michelle
| By Kimberley on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 09:01 am: |
Hi Michelle
yes, in the beginning I did feel uncomfortable feeding in public and even went to public toilets at times. At friends houses, it wasn't a prob but I tended to clear a table pretty quickly if there were blokes sitting there, althoug not all of them!!! I was pretty anti-bottle in the beginning which led to a tiff in hospital when they threatened me with formula. I grew up in a house without littlies so didn't have much exposure to BFing plus my mum is pretty uptight about it and we were all bottle fed. There you go it must be my mum's fault!! (poor parents they get blamed for everything, who'd be one???) No, it's not all that bad. I'm envious of Taliver's teeth, Elsbeth has none, but her gums have been swollen for a while and bother her a bit. Hope they settle down soon for Taliver.
bye for now
Kimberley
| By Michelle on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 09:50 am: |
Thanks Kimberley,
Its funny how our parents shape the way we view the world, huh? What a tremendous responsibility we have... Just as well we are all such good mama's!
"I tended to clear a table pretty quickly if there were blokes sitting there" Hahaha! Good on you.
Even though yesterday Taliver was REALLY grizzly, and his tooth still hasn't popped, last night he slept FOR 5 HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unheard of! He is now actually putting himself off to sleep (he cries if I stay in the room too long) sometimes he needs me to just stay nearby and either say his key words or pat his bottom and he settles really quickly, but even then I am still able to leave the room and he puts himself off to sleep. WOW!!! I honestly never thought I would ever get to this point. So, those who are doing the NCSS, hang in there! I felt like giving up soooo many times, but I didn't have any other way to get him to sleep, so I stuck with it.... Its taken 4 almost 5 months to get him to sleep for 5 hours. I just hope it happens again!!! I really can't beleive this plan worked.
Hope your all getting good sleep too : )
TTYL
Michelle
| By pinky on Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 11:20 pm: |
A wee grin about names for breastfeeding as babies grow- my younger brother taught my first child to say "titty" so of course this child taught the next one -and so on. The youngest one said "booby" which was probably just as obvious. although perahps less "crass" - if you want to give breastfeeding a name - choose a "key word" early and stick with it before some smart person teaches your child something funny (to them!)
Of course being my YOUNGER brother -he had children after me!!! Revenge is sweet.
Its so good to hear Taliver is getting to sleep safely without stress -it does happen when babies are ready, but I hear so many sad stories of mums being coerced into thinking they HAVE to let their babies cry or they will never get to sleep by themselves.
It warms my heart to hear another 'gradually with love' story.
May those teeth hurry up without too many tears and sweet dreams....
Pinky
| By Michelle on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 09:41 am: |
Eeek! My word for nursing is "Booba". His daddy's word is "Titty" *LOL* Neither of them is great. Although even words that are more disguised are still pretty obvious (like on little britain- "Bitty").
"Its so good to hear Taliver is getting to sleep safely without stress -it does happen when babies are ready"
I think this is so true, it became quite obvious to me when he was ready to start going to sleep on his own, during the day he was different- I can't say how exactly but he seemed to be more 'aware' of the world around him. And of course at bedtime he would absolutely SCREAM while I was rocking him, or if I was nursing he would pull off and push me away. But as soon as I put him in the cot he would roll over, cuddle his blankie and close his eyes. To start with he wanted me there to pat him or sing to him until he was asleep, but lately my prescence has been keeping him awake.
It feels so good that I can understand what he is trying to tell me. If it were up to me though, I must admit I would probably rock him to sleep until he left home! j/k. It is something beautiful to watch your baby fall asleep with a smile on their face, tucked in the crook of your arm...and I do miss that. Now I just have to sneak in once he is asleep to watch him 
and have extra special cuddles when he wakes up!
| By Kimberley on Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 03:37 pm: |
Hi Michelle
that's wonderful that Taliver is going to sleep on his own. Well done for making the journey smooth for him. We've just moved the cot into our room and plan to let Elsbeth sleep in it if she wants. (She's actually in it now, yippee) I do feel sad though, not to be with her, will see how it goes. Will also try it in part at night time.
let you know how we go.
cheers Kimberley
| By Amys on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 07:20 am: |
Molly's starting to do this too, at just over 7 months. At night she sometimes starts crying and squirming til I put her down (still in our bed, but in her own space). Most of the time she still sleeps on me, and during the day there's no way she'll let me put her down, but it's the beginning. Makes me sad! Is that in the NCSS? Have never read it but would like to. She's just started doing it on her own. I'm going to attach her cot to the side of our bed (sideless) and let her have her own space when she wants it.
Amy
| By Kimberley on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 11:31 am: |
That's a godd idea Amy, we have the cot in our room but not attached to the bed and with the sides on. Elsbeth doesn't really like it and hasn't gone in since the other day, so I'm thinking of doing the side car arrangement. I haven't read the ncss either, is there a link Michelle?
cheers Kimberley
| By Pinky on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 12:05 pm: |
hi Girls,
Sounds like Im actually on line at the same time for once.
I just want to add a wee word on NCSS -personally it didnt gel with me -I discussed this with a friend the other day who has mothered similarly -I have almost felt like a bad woman to criticize.
Although there are some good suggestions, I still feel it carries the assumption that you have to DO SOMETHING NOW or you will create bad habits/ will still be getting up for years.
Im really not totally sure why it "irked' me -I guess I dont like so much focus on 'making things happen' (I am not so highly organised that I coud be bothered with charts but I do know they help some mums feel better, so I am not knocking this in particular). As you are beginning to see, with minor adjustments, knowing baby's cues really well and supporting what your baby is ready for, babies do sleep better as they mature. They dont need to be 'taught' to sleep - its not a learned skill in teh same sense that riding a bicycle is for instance.
I feel there is little acknowledgement of teh benefits of night wakings to breastfeeding and bonding in almost any sleep book including NCSS- prolactin levels are highest during night sleep and babies receive a large proportion of their nourishment then; hormonal status at night enhances bonding when babies are near mum and when mums and babies sleep near each other (ie same room) they tend to get into the same sleep pattern so night wakings are brief anyway.
I feel our lives are very out of kilter withbaby needs - ie a generation ago women wouldnt be expected to drive (not a good activity if we are tired)for instance, or race back to a demanding career. I think infancy is a very special time and if we follow our babies cues, everything does eventually happen without lots of stress or force or self doubt that we have created bad habits.
Im not sure I have made good sense, and I do know we dont live in a perfect world where mothers have all the support they need, but I feel there is a lot of emphasis in making the baby fit our needs and lives, rather than simply 'going with theflow' of baby reality, taking time to enjoy and fitting work around baby as and when we are ready.
Perhaps I just want to see more acknowledgement of this special time for mum and baby and how awesome it is without placing the focus so heavily on sleep as the ultimate achievement (or failure) of lfe with a baby.
Its wonderful to have information and whatever fits with your baby is great so do read everything - NCSS is a more gentle approach, it just doesnt really do it for me and at the end, if it doesnt work, the author does advise leaving baby to cry once you have done everything else -because you need your sleep. I find this contradictory.
Pinky
| By Amys on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 01:56 pm: |
Thanks for that Pinky. I didn't realise the NCSS was a 'routine' of sorts. I won't bother reading it! I'm more than happy to let Molly lead me. Only problem with her sleeping ON me is that my back is shot and I can't cuddle hubby. Oh well....
Amy
| By Michelle on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 05:25 pm: |
I'm agreeing AND disagreeing with you on this one Pinky.
With Taliver waking up every 45 minutes, I was going to go to Tresillian. I hated having to do it, but I definately could not cope with things anymore. I was at the stage where by 5 am I was so tired that I could hear him crying, but I couldn't talk my body into moving. On nights where I co-slept HE would be so tired and distraught that he wouldn't latch on. Getting him to sleep during the day at one stage took an hour and a half for him to wake only 40 minutes later.
I'm pretty sure that this all happened because of his early trauma (intensive care first 5 days of his life) and BAD advice I got from the health system (waking him up every 3 hours to feed during the day). Things were spiralling out of control for me. I am so much happier now and so much of a better mum. Also he is a much happier baby now that he is getting the sleep he needs.
Its only if your in this state where your likely to shake the baby or just do something stupid (I left dinner on the stove one night while hubby was out and Taliver was screaming because he was overtired and nearly burnt the house down) that she advises you to soothe the baby without picking it up or holding the baby until it goes to sleep. I did do this on occasions (hope you all don't hate me for admitting that) I held him in my arms until he fell asleep on a number of occasions, but NOTHING else was working. I would try to rock/pat/nurse/walk and he would just cry harder and harder. My mum had 5 babies and she never had sleep problems like this with any of us.
That being said, I don't agree completely with the NCSS either. If Taliver had been waking up a reasonable about say 4-5 times a night (or less) like he sometimes does now, I would have been happy not to do the NCSS, and to have followed his leads, and even co-slept.
I think Pinky's right in that most babies don't need the rigid routine, and that night waking is completely normal.
Also, since this plan has taken months and months (much longer than she prescribed in the book) I often wonder if it was just a matter of his development too. I can see the benefits of the routine, but they don't 'fix' the baby. Or 'Teach' the baby to fall asleep. I think this is purely a maturity thing which different babies reach at different times. The charts were a complete waste of time and I never was bothered to do them.
I admit that there have been a lot of times when I have felt a 'failure' when I see other mothers with their (what I blindly consider as) 'easy' babies. And there was a time when I was completely obsessed with getting sleep. Funnily enough it has only been when I stopped obsessing that I have begun to see better sleep!
I wish I had've 'gone with the flow' more but I guess as everyone keeps telling me, you make all the mistakes with your first.
Also the thing I felt frustrated about was trying to 'trust my instincts' when I honestly just didn't know what to do with my screaming baby.
Summing up, I think you need a lot of information...it doesn't always come naturally and you don't always know what to do and NCSS is a good resource, you can always ignore the bits you don't agree with. It has good stuff about bedtime rituals and rewarding older babies for staying in bed. I think it is EXTREMELY important that mothers are educated about what is 'normal' night waking (again early childhood centre told me that he should only be having one night feed by 6 months!!!). You certainly don't need it if things are working for your family and everyone is happy.
Well, that's my experience with it anyway. Here's the link if you are still interested: www.pantley.com/elizabeth
Just keep in mind that like most authors, she is trying to make money as well. (no offense pinky, you know I love you!)
well, my fingers need a rest hehehe
Michelle
| By Pinky on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 06:48 pm: |
Hi Amy- I didnt mean -dont read this book - was just expressing that even tho there is some good stuff there - take what you want , I didnt feel completely good about it. I guess its a very American style -and does promise a 'quick fix' that doesnt ring true for me.
When it comes to leaving dinner burning, you definitely need to try something. I am not against trying settling ideas and would never be nasty to any mum who reaches the end of her wick - hugs Michelle - you survived! And so did your bub -beautifully by the sounds of it.
The old "follow your instincts ' is atricky one. I beleive our 'instincts' are actually a real database of knowledge that we have absorbed during our own infancy, as we are growing up, stuff that we may have read etc - this doesnt mean dont seek information - I also believe we need to skill up -then trust what feels right for ourselves and our babies -this is following your heart.
IMO early separation, difficult births do seem to have an affect on sleep and its hard to work out what is good advice especially in teh early days -there may be valid reasons for this advice at the time. I am always amazed at how often babies do tend to settle better once the anxiety has been taken away - anxiety that this baby is especially difficult, or that you as a mother have created a problem.
Yes Michelle , we are all trying to make $$ - but books arent a really lucrative way-unfortunately, the 'middle men' make the most $$$. I must admit, Elizabeth is a better marketing person than me -and I do like her artcles so her site is well worth a look.
If you are interested in a beautiful discipline approach - do a search on Canadian author Barbara Coloroso - her book 'Kids are Worth It' is my favourite. I have seen it in Borders -my daughter Sarah tells me smacking is banned in Canada -"and mum, all the kids are really cute and well behaved, and the parents speak nicely to them" She did retail here while a sudent and one year even did Santa Photos for Myers so has seen a good cross section -she thinks Aussie parents in general are quite nasty to kids (in shops)in comparison.
Pinky
| By Michelle on Friday, May 6, 2005 - 08:12 pm: |
Hi again Pinky,
Sorry if I sounded defensive....I guess i've gone the whole 'motherly guilt' thing again, huh?
Everyday I'm feeling more and more intune with my instincts and it is so much easier now that Taliver can communicate (even if it still is non-verbal-although he said 'dad' the other day). But to begin with, I just had no idea! And looking back, because of his early seperation/trauma I doubt there was much I could have done differently that would have changed the way things panned out.
"I am always amazed at how often babies do tend to settle better once the anxiety has been taken away"
This is so true- Taliver doesn't even qualify as a 'high needs' (askdrsears.com) baby anymore! And its probably because I have relaxed and accepted his active, determined and spunky personality. (which I couldn't imagine living without!).
In a way I was quite naive, and didn't really do enough research about parenting before he was born, which probably contributed to my inability to differentiate between good and bad advice. Which is why I'm starting to look into the next stage already so that I feel nice a prepared to be calm when he does things like climb up on the dining room table *L* This time I'm not going to kid myself!
So Thank You again, I will probably order 'kids are worth it' cos even just the title sounds good! I already have 'liberated parents, liberated children' which I really liked, and will probably refer to again and again.
Smacking should be banned world wide! Canada to me seems like they are pretty with it. I have heard other things about the Canadian government which I have thought that the Australian's should take a lead from (I can't remember what though). It's amazing what a little mutual respect can buy a parent, isn't it? Aussie parents can be quite nasty in general (ever seen the road rage around schools at 9am?!) But luckily there is an oasis from those types right here in this forum....ahhhh *big group hug*
okay, I've finnally finished speaking my mind for tonight hehehe....
Michelle
| By pinky on Sunday, May 8, 2005 - 12:24 am: |
You have absolutely nothing to feel mummy guilt about- what a lucky baby is Taliver to have a mum who is so in tune
Dont underestimate the effects of early trauma on mothers, as well as babies - my first baby was an ICU bub too -its really stressful isnt it? And Im sure it takes the wind out of mums trying to adapt to such a big life change/ post birth exhaustion -is it any wonder we can be fragile and vulnerable .
Good on you for thinking ahead too, Michelle,
A nice local book on toddlers is The Happy Toddler by Chantal Gazal - shes early childhood trained and also a mother of young kids. Its a lovely easy read and gentle, respectful stuff.
this book is another example of Aussie publishing - it came out last year but not many shops have it -sales reps from big publishers seem to do so much better so the poor author with a smaller publisher misses out even with a really great book. If you cant find this one -ask the shops to order it. It might stir some action.
Its good to have some great activity/ play ideas books too -Moving to Learn is a great one - they have a website but I cant remember whether it's . com or .com.au but you can order it online . Kindermusik have a lovely email newsletter too.
Happy mothers day to you all,
Pinky
| By Michelle on Sunday, May 8, 2005 - 07:40 pm: |
Thanks Pinky,
Yes, I think for me I just went into 'Autopilot' and never really 'felt' the emotions associated with it. Taliver was (luckily) only in there for less than a week and I was able to stay in the hospital the whole time. I really feel for those mother's who have to leave hospital without a baby (I was dreading having to do that!).
Thanks for the leads on some Aussie books. It is always good to support Aussie authous, and I think it's better to read more relevant material rather than being 'americanised' all the time!
Happy Mother's Day!
Michelle
| By Jo on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 08:54 pm: |
Hi Girls,
My son Seamus is 13weeks old. we sometimes co sleep depends on how tired I am, often falling asleep after he's attached waking up 3 hours later with him still in the bed. I already know my answer to the following question but I thought I'd post it anyway. I've said before I'm in a country town surrounded by women who believe in CC so I'm very thankful to this website.
Question - Is there anypoint in rousing Seamus to feed on the other breast if he's seems content with the one breast.
Scenario - Bath/Bed/Feed at 6 or 7PM then I top him up before I go to bed around 10 or 10.30. He wakes at 2ish when I bring him into our bed. Most times he feeds one side and we both fall asleep until 5ish.
I know this night scenario might sound heavenly for some mothers but if I feed at 5am then my older boys are up at 6am I don't get much quality sleep after the feed until and 6 so I was wondering if I roused Seamus and offered the other breast do you think he'd sleep longer??
As I said I know the answer - try and see, if it doesn't work then go with the flo!!
I'd just like to say that this site if a fantastic support and full of great advice from all who post. Thanks
Jo
| By Kimberley on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:26 am: |
Hi Jo
Hope all is well. I'm no expert, but I would imagine if you did feed the other breast, Seamus would probably sleep a bit longer, although, maybe his sleep cycle is to wake at 5am regardless (due to the other benefits of night waking such as bonding, reduced sids etc). You're right, I would suggest giving it a try and see what happens (predictable eh). Maybe others have another idea.
I have to comment that sadly, a couple of my BFing friends are having difficulties at night at the moment. One mum brings her bub into bed around 6am when her hubby wakes and she's finding that her bub wakes around 3am wanting her. She often stays up with him for 2 hours, trying to settle him into his cot rather than pop him in with her. The other mum is considering weaning her bub who is 9 months old as her breasts are still 'leaking' during the night. She puts her bub to bed at 6pm and doesn't feed or go to her until morning (6 or 7am!!). She uses CC and I suspect her bub has learnt not to cry for her during the night. Incidently, her bub is about 2-3 kg lighter than Elsbeth (although genetics are probably partly due to this, my tall hubby and all). I tell these mums that I wake and feed a few times during the night and they think I'm having trouble, although Elsbeth goes straight back to sleep, and I'm really happy with the amount she and I sleep. I gently suggest to these mums that their bubs probably want them or a feed at night, but you can bring the horse to water but can't make it drink, eh. I'm just so glad I came across Pinky's site or else I wouldn't be one of the enlightened or lucky one's (Elsbeth included). THANKS Pinky, you're a star!!!! So too are all the mums on this site, like you say Jo. While I'm on the positives about AP and there are so many, I also have another friend who has a 2 year old and a 7 month old. She DOES NOT pick up her 7 month old. She's either in a bouncinette, a jolly jumper, the pram or on the floor. She doesn't communicate much and when she does and I'm around I pick her up (which I think annoys her mum). Needless to say, this mum has a very clean house, but I shouldn't judge as she must have her own reasons for parenting this way, I sense that she doesn't want to feel like she's neglecting the needs of her 2 year old, who is adorable. I just feel very sad for her bub. And yep, this mum thinks I'm having trouble with my housework, which I probably am, but at least I've got an excuse now (chuckle) as I've never seen the point in a spotless house and folded undies when there's living to do!! (MIL used to iron my hubbies undies before I stole him so I'm definitely a failure, thank goodness I have other 'qualities' he prefers, he he) Maybe we could have a thread of gripes about our mil's (you have issews Kimmy!! - Kath) K&K DVD was the best mother's day present ever - the 3 of us spent the afternoon watching it with a packet of tim tams...bliss. Alright, I'm raving now, sorry Jo, yes, give it a try and go with it, hope it works, let us know.
Cheers Kimberley
| By Michelle on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 03:46 pm: |
"this mum thinks I'm having trouble with my housework, which I probably am, but at least I've got an excuse now (chuckle) as I've never seen the point in a spotless house and folded undies when there's living to do!!"
This is me all over!!!! hehehe.
Jo- Well, seeing as my 11 month old has never slept as well as your 13 week old, I'm afraid I don't have any helpful advice!! Other than, your body will adjust to the nightwaking and you won't feel as tired...but that takes a little time.
| By Kimberley on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:20 pm: |
Good to hear we're not all clean freaks Michelle!! I'm not a housewife, I'm a hornbag - Kim (sorry K&K on the brain)
| By Jo on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 11:58 am: |
Hi There,
Thanks for the giggle girls. You'll never guess what happened that night. Seamus was a bit clingy - yes teeth are on the rise!! so he slept better in my arms than in bed most of the afternoon/evening. He fed at 9ish then we both went to bed, him in my arms - HE SLEPT TILL 4AM!!! - and then proceeded to suck my breast until it nearly came off!!! Wow after 6 hours of straight sleep I felt like I could take on the world - I had to tell myself not to get up and start the day. Mind you he hasn't done it since but I haven't expected im to either, we had a lovely cuddle all night. We both must have been tired as we'd hardly moved all night. I was so pleased of our restful night only to have it shattered by other concerned mums that I was setting myself up for trouble and that Seamus would never learn to sleep on his own. I've got to learn to keep my mouth shut about our sleeping arrangements unless those in hearing shot agree to AP. I explained to those who like routines and CC that we went down a long and emotional road to get our 3rd son and he's too special to let him cry himself to sleep. I then get the comment - Oh well do whatever works for you. And I will. I get more sleep when he's with me in bed than when he's not!!
I love the 'excuse' for not doing housework, I'll be using that far more often now!!
Jo
| By Pinky on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 04:28 pm: |
Go Jo!! Love the 'our baby is too special to let him cry himself to sleep" - what a lovely response.
Wanna housework story?-I diligently typed it up the other night then 'lost it' somewhere before posting.
Years ago I was nursing in a postnatal ward where we each had our own 'ladies' to look after. I had mostly caesar patients so let them have slippers next to their beds, whatever they wanted within arms reach etc so there was no unecessary bending or stretching each time they had to get up. yes, untidy a lot of the time, but they were all happy and rested.
As I arrived back from lunch one day, a student midwife met me and the charge nurse, saying 'bloody X has tidied your ladies and they are all crying". (X was a total neat freak and even used to tell us all how she scrubbed her front steps each day etc etc)
The charge nurse grinned and sighed, "well, you know what they say about fanatical housewives?" I too laughed but the others hadnt read the same book - I dont remember what it was now but this book quoted a well known psychoanalyst who said, "show me a fanatical housewife and I'll show you a woman with severe sexual hangups".
Anyway, next weekend when I arrived at work (I had 2 little kids so just worked weekends when they were homewith Daddy), the charge nurse pulled me aside - almost wetting herself. Apparently X had arrived at work distraught during the week - she had to go and collect her hubby from the police station as he had been picked up flashing outside the girls high school!! Poor woman , how humiliating - but enough juice for me to never worry too much about my housekeeping skills ever again while I had babies ( or even now , really).
Tip 1 - dont clean windows - get the kids to paint them - then you cant possibly wash them . it would be disrespectful to demolish childrens artwork.
Tip 2 - dont iron anything that doesntlook as tho it was ironed at all after 5 minutes wear.
tip 3 - just do one big tidyup late in the day -and as soon as your child can balance on two legs with a toy in his hand, make it a game and get him to help you- pickup to music - "how many toys can we pick up before the music stops?"
Or have fun 'throwing' - "lets throw all the blocks into the yellow box"
etc etc. Mummy cant be the 'slave' - ever!
| By Michelle on Saturday, May 14, 2005 - 06:32 pm: |
Hi Pinky! I love that story!
In response to your tips:
Tip 1: I love seeing little finger prints on the window! It reminds me of how interesting Taliver finds the world. I was tempted to photograph them the other day!!
Tip 2: The only things that get ironed in my house are my hubby's work clothes...and he does them himself every morning before work :P
Tip 3: Taliver and I have made a very fun nightly ritual of throwing the toys into the toybox and the books into the bookbox every night before dinner! I put an object in his hand and he throws it (He's at a very "Throwing" stage at the moment) I try to catch it in the box and cheer and clap if it gets in and he LOVES it!! I'm hoping if I set him up so that he thinks it is a fun game/ritual that it will be continued through childhood (I know, wishful thinking! *L*) if not, at least it is teaching him that mummy ISN'T a personal slave and that I do expect him to pick up his things.
Jo, good for you! I bet that it will be one of your most treasured memories, (his too!) snuggling up for a nice long sleep, followed by a nice long breastfeed! Baby bliss!
| By Kimberley on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:26 am: |
Hi Girls
well done Jo, keep trusting your instincts, your bub is very lucky to have you!
Pinky, that's very funny and I love the housework tips. I'm with you Michelle, I love the finger prints on the windows too. I haven't quite convinced hubby about letting Elsbeth paint the windows, but we're working on it!!
cheers Kimberley
| By Jo on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 04:21 pm: |
Hi There,
When I had Seamus my MIL arrived to help out, she cleaned the whole house including washing the windows and cleaning the curtains. She said "I hope you don't mind, I thought I'd get them done so you don't have to" I responded by saying. "Thanks but there was no need as I don't bother cleaning the windows anyway so please don't be disappointed next time you come because the house will be back to NORMAL".
I let her clean and wash as much as she liked cause that's what she enjoys doing. Now I just have to de-chemicalise the house now!!
Jo
| By Kimberley on Monday, May 16, 2005 - 10:39 pm: |
Like Michelle said a while ago (I think re night feeds), people do and say things based on what bothers them, not what we may want. Though, I bet if you looked closely, you'd find dust at your mil's house (take the white glove around next time!!)
| By Michelle on Tuesday, May 17, 2005 - 09:34 am: |
Jo,
*LOL*
I think you handled her well! (BTW, You can send her my way if you like)
My mum is a godsend, whenever she comes to visit, after she's left we find all this housework done...I don't know how she does it without us noticing!! Our own little cleaning fairy :D
My MIL also can't help but clean when she visits.... I don't say anything, I just let them go! I hate housework, so there's plenty to be done and they like to help. A win-win situation I think. ;)
| By Michelle on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 07:28 pm: |
Okay, I don't know if this is an actual 'problem' or not, but I thought I'd ask to see if anyone had any ideas for me to try.
Taliver pretty much only drinks breastmilk. Which is fantastic as far as I'm concerned...I'm just worried about the fact that when I'm at work (2 days a week) he'll be lucky to take a couple of sips of water and usually point blank refuses formula. I've tried expressing, but I only ever get a few mls (even with the expensive breast pump I brought). He still has his morning and night feeds and still feeds 2-4 times during the night. Should I be worried? He has wet nappies and everything and in my mind when he's thirsty he'll drink. But at the same time, he might just be 'hanging on' until I get home to give him his boobie. He's never taken the bottle (except as a newborn in ICU) but he drinks from his 'sippy' cup. He drinks it the same way he drinks booby, with the same jaw motion I mean. Any ideas girls?
Thanks!
| By Amanda on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 08:58 pm: |
Michelle, I don’t think you need to worry. If he’s thirsty he will drink the water... Jesse feeds every two hours pretty much both day and night and still drinks heaps of water by choice. He started I think from watching me and wanting what I had so now he reaches for his sipper when ever he is thirsty. We offer it also allot, like when he wakes and when ever we have a drink. I guess you could just always offer when you have some and he becomes more natural... If he’s got wet nappies, his fontanel isn’t concaved, and he’s not interested in drinking I would think he’s ok. But I’m not a professional... But hope that helps anyway!
| By Michelle on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 10:38 am: |
Thanks Amanda. I'm bad, I don't drink nearly enough...that's probably where the problem stems from.
| By Amanda on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 03:44 pm: |
Yeah no worries... I’m sure he will in time, especially as he’s taking the breast less as he gets older. Perhaps you could try cueing you both by having his sipper and your water in view and drink/offer when you think of it. Have a good weekend! Amanda
| By Pinky on Saturday, July 16, 2005 - 11:30 pm: |
Many babies 'reverse cycle' their breastfeeds when mum works - ie refuse drinks during the day when mum is absent, but make up for it early evening or at night -best to offer more often early evening or get up a bit earlier on work days to make sure he has a good drink while you are there - and model water drinking.
Have you tried expressing off one side as you b/F from the other - ie early morning? Also massaging your breasts/ stimulating letdown before pumping?
Having said that -I was never wonderful at expressing when I had a hospitalised baby(?Maybe affected by stress), but found hand expressing more effective with another baby when I worked a couple of days, starting when she was around 11 months (again not much volume but enough to tide her over) -she would take that in a cup quite happily.
Another suggestion with fluids is home made icy poles -very diluted juice.
Pinky
| By Michelle on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 10:41 am: |
Thanks Pinky, I think modelling drinking is a good idea, even when we are at home together. Sometimes if I'm having a drink he will want to drink from my glass (usually gets more on his clothes than in him, but at least he is drinking). I find that he does make up for the missed breastfeeds by having one when I get home from work, and sometimes again in the early evening. Also often he'll take the sippy cup when I offer it to him, just not when his carer's do. I'll have another go at expressing, I haven't done it in yonks. I'll try while the other breast is letting down while Taliver is feeding...though I don't expect to get much into him if there is something as exciting as a breastpump nearby LOL. I'll let you know how we go. I've also found that he would take more water in summer when it was warmer too.
Thanks for the wonderful advice, I'll keep you posted.
Michelle
| By Kimberley on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 05:31 am: |
Hi Michelle
I find that Elsbeth tends to drink water if she's been active like being walked up and down the hallway over and over and over again - ahhh lol(can't wait 'til she starts walking herself but she knows she can go faster and more places with mum/dad or anyone who'll walk with her really). Otherwise, she tends to drink breast milk or to take her fluids from food. I give her yoghurt for a snack as it's liquid..(have tried soy but she seems to get hyped up on it) I also recycle the super dooper plastic sleeves with weak juice which gives her a drink. Even in this weather she still eats them and loves playing with crushed ice. There are days when she'll go without a bf for 5 or 6 hours and will get fluid from food (veggies are mostly water and she has started eating salmon in springwater juice which is fairly moist with avo on toast), water or yoghurt or a little ice cream. Good luck with it, cheers Kimberley
| By rebeccab on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 08:42 pm: |
hi all,
what's the current thinking on 'rollover' feeds, or giving a feed to a sleeping baby before mum goes to sleep? i guess pinky the L.C extraordinaire may be able to help but any info welcome. i found it never made any difference with nicholas but interested to know what people think.
becc
| By Kimberley on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 09:01 pm: |
Hi Becc
I think it helps us by topping elsbeth up (she still wakes later for a feed though, but I'm not sure how much longer it sustains her, I imagine it keeps her alseep for about an hour longer) and also helps keep my supply up. plus it's handy for us for the transition into our bed, from dads arms on the lounge or her mattress, as it settles her back to sleep. hope this helps, cheers Kimberley
| By Pinky on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:10 am: |
Hi Becc,
Opinion varies but there have been a couple of studies showing that with no other 'scheduling' ie feeding baby on cue at all other times - but giving a rollover feed , most babies in the studies slept 5 hours (remember that si ALL night in infant sleep studies).
While it does fly in the face of "pure" demand/ cue feeding (I like cue feeding better as a label) if it works for individual babies and families I think its perfectly reasonable. It also makes sense that if you are off to bed but 'know' baby will wake in an hour, it is probably going to save some angst by gently attempting to top baby up before you go to bed.
These rollovers don't have to mean all the palaver of waking baby/ changig nappies etc if this isnt necessary - just do a 'dream feed' - offer gently and see if they suck - baby would need to be in a light sleep state tho.
Also when breastfeeding, make it a breastfeed - not a formula top up- you would be surprised ( or perhaps not) how many people do a formula topup and really this is pointless - its detrimental to your own milk supply ( asKimberly says, the extra feed is great for your milk), and predisposes baby to allergens unecessarily.
At least one formula co recently introduced a formula with extra "bits" in it to induce sleep - it wont equal the hormones in breastmilk for this (which have a naturally soporific effect) and I worry about messing with amino acids in relation to brain development. Even if you are bottle feeding, I wouldnt mess with this formula - it takes a generation for problems to show so whatever you normally use is safer.
Pinky
| By Jo on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:02 pm: |
Hi All,
I do a rollover feed or 'dream feed' most nights. i.e Seamus feed at 7ish tonight and then I went out - yahoo!!!!! and I came home to find out he went to bed a 9.30 so I'll be off to bed soon and offer him a breast (that is tainted with choc hazlenut cake and a glass of red - got to love book club meetings at cafes!)
He tends to wake around 3ish for his next feed but I fear that he'd wake around 1ish if I didn't, going on past experience. He's also that sleepy that I can still read my book while is drinking and the night light doesn't wake him fully so by the time he's finished I'm drowsy from reading also.
Hope this helps, if not take the cake and red wine option.
Jo
| By Kimberley on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 11:15 pm: |
Hi Jo
I'm impressed by your book club attending, good for you!
| By rebeccab on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 01:46 pm: |
thanks for your thoughts, jo. my seamus seems to be having a reasonably long stretch from 7ish without the dream feed, so i haven't been doing it, but i wasn't sure what others are doing and what people are being advised to do.
good on you for book club. i love mine too. we age range from 32 to 80 and have a blast. once a month it is a real breath of fresh air. i thoroughly recommend it. i found mine through the CAE, and knew no one, but it is a great way to wear a different hat for a night and not be anyone but yourself. i've only been going for a year but i do enjoy it. must suggest the cafe meetings, though!!
cheers,
becc
| By Bridget on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 10:28 am: |
THanks Everybody! I think I'll try my best to 'go with the flow'. I've yet to meet anyone who is breastfeeding who can get little ones into any kind of regular routine - we just start to get somewhere and they change yet again! And her feeding pattern changes each day.
I have also been trying to get her to take a bottle ( with expressed milk) with not a great deal of success - she just plays with it,regardless of who gives it to her. The most she will take is about 30-40 mls. If we are not in the house, she just won't feed until I get back! Any ideas on this? Has anyone had success with trying a cup - one of those with a lid - rather than a bottle at this age ( 5 1/2 months)?
| By Michelle on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 08:01 pm: |
Taliver is breastfeeding and in a routine, but we didn't really get to it until he was about 15 months, when he dropped to one nap during the day. As you say, up until that stage where the need for breastmilk and naps plateau, it is just too hard to keep up with them, and what their needs are day-to-day.
I could only get Taliver to drink water out of a bottle and when I went back to work I gave up sending milk (he was 12months when I initially started going back to work) and just sent water in a cup. He has never accepted a bottle. Which in a way is a good thing because I don't have to wean him from that as well.
Is there a particular reason you want to get her into a routine/taking a bottle? is it to go out and have someone babysit or are you going back to work?
To be honest I never found babysitting to be terribly successful (i.e I never felt comfortable leaving him, and he wasn't really settled and happy on my return) until about 12 months of age- which isn't too far off for your bub really, just another 6 months or so. If you just want her to get used to being looked after so you and your husband can have a break, I would suggest lots of short breaks (an hour or two here and there) to get her used to it. Now I can comfortably leave Taliver (20 months) all day and he is generally pretty happy to wait for mummy before he breastfeeds. He'll even lie down with other people (his dad, my sister etc) on the bed, read a story and fall asleep (even though he is usually BF to sleep for naps) so it does get a lot easier as they get older.
HTH
| By beck on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 03:39 pm: |
Hi guys just dropping in to vent! i am sick of breastfeeding at the moment. never before have i felt like this. the older 2 weaned at 2 years and the second 3 years and 11 months. oscar is 2 tomorrow (and i am feeling sad about my baby growing up) but i am also just sick of the permant attachment to me from about 5pm until he goes to sleep at about 7-8pm. yes he has a bath and i can usually get DH to distract him to bath him but he is straight back on. i have a very sore left breast where he gauged it with his fingernails - drawing blood! i don't feel i should wean him as i have always let the other 2 self wean and i do enjoy all the other feeds, it's just that time when i want to do stuff and have a strapping toddler attached to my hip in a sling and on the breast and the playing with the other nipple drives me CRAZY. i feel bad moaning about it and i know i will never force him to wean but any suggestions on a gentle method at this busy time?
beck
| By Michelle on Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 08:05 pm: |
Hi Beck, I think it is important to honour your feelings. I find being honest with Taliver about it often helps...like "mummy's feeling overwhelmed, no nursing now" or something- I used to use it when I was feeling how you described, and often Taliver really didn't care that much and would go on to something else- othertimes he would really want it and be persistant and I would decide I'd prefer to give it to him than have him upset about it...I think it can be an opportunity to teach him about other people's feelings without neccessarily withdrawing your love or totally weaning him. In my opinion saying 'no' can be done with love and understanding...in showing him that you acknowledge and honour your own feelings, you are really teaching him to acknowledge and honour his OWN feelings.
Also if the playing with the other nipple is annoying, could you try and prevent access by wearning a couple of layers so that you need to get the boob out for him, and can do so, one at a time??
This is all just my opinion, but I hope it gives you some ideas!
Hugs
Michelle